Ep. 17 - Career & Infidelity: A Pilot Speaks

[00:12] Introduction: Career, Divorce and Infidelity

Ep. 17 - Career & Infidelity: A Pilot Speaks

Host: Dr. Kanwal Bawa | Guest: Captain Incognito | Runtime: 23:34 | Published: April 4, 2022

Dr. Bawa: Hello everyone, welcome back to the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. I am here, as always, to change your life. We have interesting conversations. Today we are talking about infidelity. When it comes to infidelity, pilots are considered to be up there. Books like The Pilot's Wife don't help the stereotype any. But first, let's look at divorce statistics.

Dr. Bawa: Which careers have the highest rates of divorce? Gaming managers and gaming service workers have a very high rate, around 52.9%. Nevada, of course, has the highest divorce rate for them because Nevada has the most gaming managers, right? With all the casinos. Bartenders—well, that makes sense. Flight attendants—that makes sense. But metal and plastics machine setters and operators threw me off a little.

Dr. Bawa: Massage therapists, I can see that one. Then let's talk about careers with some of the lowest divorce rates: actuaries, clergy, software developers, physical therapists and engineers.

Dr. Bawa: Now let's talk about some of the more well-known, glamorous careers. Professional athletes have a very high divorce rate. Pilots were around 30.5%. I thought it would be higher. Piloting an airplane is a stressful job. You're carrying several hundred people at a time. It's a lot of stress, travel, staying away from home, ridiculous hours, sleeping when others are awake, being awake when others are sleeping, and working holidays and weekends. It's not an easy life.

Dr. Bawa: Something else I found interesting is that physicians actually have a lower divorce rate, around 21.8%. Among physicians, female physicians have a higher rate of divorce, and that makes me wonder whether it's related to women being married to men who might not be as successful professionally. Just a thought.

Dr. Bawa: Our focus today is on pilots and the perception that they have higher rates of infidelity. I am joined by my friend, who is a former Marine and a captain with a major U.S. airline. Welcome, Captain. Thank you for joining me in the studio today.

Captain: I'm happy to be here. This is exciting.

Dr. Bawa: Thank you. So tell me, is it true that pilots screw around a whole lot?

[03:13] How Common Is Infidelity Among Pilots?

Captain: It's not as true as it used to be. If you look back at something like the movie Catch Me If You Can and the golden age of aviation, it happened all the time. Nowadays it's still prevalent, no doubt, but I don't think it's anywhere near as prevalent as it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago, prior to 9/11.

Captain: It also depends on which part of aviation you're in. I work for a major U.S. carrier, and my trips typically last two, three or four days. But when I was working for a cargo hauler flying around the world, I would be gone for 20, 30, 40 days—sometimes as much as 57 days. The level of infidelity that I personally witnessed in that particular line of work was far greater than what I'm seeing today.

Dr. Bawa: You were married for a very long time.

Captain: Twelve years, three days.

Dr. Bawa: Twelve years, three days—but who's counting?

Captain: Who's counting?

Dr. Bawa: But you were very faithful to your wife.

Captain: I was one of the weird ones, yes. I had the job where I was flying around the world and landing in the Far East. When I landed in Kuala Lumpur, I was approached by women left and right. It was crazy. You'd go to a nightclub, just wanting to have some drinks and have a good time, and they'd be lined up around the door trying to get at you.

Captain: I appreciated it, but I was happily married. I think they mostly wanted money.

Captain: There were other people I worked with who had families at home. They'd spend an eight-, ten- or fifteen-hour flight showing me pictures of their kids, their dogs and their wives, talking about how much they loved them and how amazing their lives were. Then we'd land in Korea and they'd disappear.

Captain: The next morning they'd roll in looking like they'd been hit by a bus and then a freight train.

Dr. Bawa: Doing the walk of shame.

Captain: Doing the walk of shame. They'd never talk about it. Then on the way back home, it was all about how much they loved their wives and kids. What goes on the road stays on the road.

[05:30] Living Two Lives on the Road

Dr. Bawa: So kind of like Vegas: what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Basically they're living two alternate lives that are happening simultaneously.

Captain: That's why we get the high divorce rate. Now that I'm flying more domestic routes instead of international, you still have the stereotype of the wide-body captain who has a family in São Paulo and another family in Miami.

Dr. Bawa: Tell our listeners who only speak English what wide-body means.

Captain: A wide-body is a large airplane—the 777s, A380s, A330s, and the 747, which I used to fly in a previous life. Those are considered wide-bodies. Narrow-bodies are the 737s and Airbus A320s.

Dr. Bawa: Are those captains more slutty?

Captain: When I was a regional pilot, I had a lot more opportunity to be slutty for various reasons. For one, they would tend to keep the crew together for a pairing. Where I am now, it's very unusual for the captain and first officer to have the same back-end crew for the entire trip. Maybe a couple of legs, but even when we land somewhere, nine times out of ten we're going to separate hotels.

Captain: At the regional level that didn't exist. You're also dealing with 24- and 25-year-olds, whereas at the major carriers people tend to be a little older. The hormones are flaring, and we had a lot more fun in the hot tubs than we do now.

[07:22] The Mile High Club and Crew Bunks

Dr. Bawa: All right then. We've talked hot tubs, wide-bodies and narrow-bodies. Tell me about the Mile High Club.

Captain: The Mile High Club does exist. I can't personally say one way or the other because I've never experienced it. Have you seen the bathrooms up there these days?

Dr. Bawa: They're disgusting and small. It doesn't matter if you're in business class; they're still small and disgusting.

Captain: They're small and disgusting. I do know that on intercontinental flights there have been stories of pilots and flight attendants hooking up in the crew bunks.

Dr. Bawa: I was about to ask.

Captain: On the wide-body airplanes, the intercontinental ones where you're flying for 10, 15, almost 20 hours, there are crew-rest quarters because you obviously can't be flying the entire time. We rotate. You might spend four or five hours in the seat and then four or five hours in the bunk, depending on the flight—sometimes eight hours.

Captain: There are stories from friends flying for the legacy carriers—United, Delta, American—and especially international carriers like Emirates. Friends who flew internationally out of Dubai to Delhi, Sydney or wherever they were going definitely had stories about having fun with the flight attendants.

Dr. Bawa: Was it the hot Indian women?

Captain: It's the hot everything. Have you looked at an Emirates flight crew?

Dr. Bawa: Those are good-looking women, and that red lipstick—I like that lipstick. They also provide a great level of service. I'm sure that extends into other areas as well.

Captain: I'm sure it does. Sadly, in my entire career, I have not had the opportunity to experience that personally, so all my experience is secondhand.

Dr. Bawa: Well, that kept you out of trouble.

Captain: It did keep me out of trouble. I was one of the weird ones who was faithful to his wife.

[09:25] Why Flight Attendants Divorce More Often Than Pilots

Dr. Bawa: Imagine that. Earlier I mentioned that flight attendants have a divorce rate around 50.5%, while pilots were around 30.5%. I would have thought they would be about equal.

Captain: You would think so, but I think part of it is maturity. I hate to stereotype, but flight attendants are typically less mature than pilots. You could wake up one morning and say, 'I want to be a flight attendant,' and six weeks later you're a flight attendant. It can happen that quickly.

Captain: To get to my level as a pilot takes years and years and years—and a lot of money.

Dr. Bawa: Do you think pilots, especially captains, have more at stake?

Captain: More at stake, and they tend to be a more mature group overall. We've got some idiots over there too.

Dr. Bawa: So you think they're cheating less?

Captain: I think they're cheating less. A lot has to do with how the industry has evolved over the last 20 years. I would give my left arm to have been an airline captain back in the 1960s. I would have had a blast, no doubt.

Captain: But I think it's a combination of maturity and the type of flying we do. We're home far more often now. People always ask, 'What's your route?' I don't have a route. Wherever the company goes, that's where we go.

Captain: When you're flying wide-body aircraft at United, Delta or American, there aren't a hundred different airports you might go to every month. It's typically the same few places. I have a friend at United whose flying is mostly Frankfurt, London, Hawaii or South America.

Dr. Bawa: So like a sailor with a girlfriend in every port, an airline captain could theoretically have a girlfriend at every airport he visits.

Captain: Very possible. Another factor is layover time. When I'm flying domestically, most of my layovers are between 11 and 18 hours, usually around 14 or 15. There's only so much you can do because when you land, you're already tired.

Captain: Flying is mentally exhausting and physically exhausting in a different way. You're subject to noise, vibration and pressure changes, and as you get older you're more susceptible to fatigue. When you get back to the hotel, a lot of times all you want to do is crack a beer and go to sleep. Having another family somewhere becomes impractical as you age.

Dr. Bawa: It's more headache than you need.

Captain: A lot more headache than you need. Which is why some guys just hire sex workers these days.

[12:41] Women Love a Man in Uniform

Dr. Bawa: All right. Women love a man in uniform. Did you have more luck with women chasing you as a Marine or now as an airline captain?

Captain: Definitely more luck as an airline captain. As a Marine, when I was back home wearing my blues, it was fun. But when you're in uniform with all the other Marines, you're just another cog in the machine.

Captain: When you walk through the terminal and you look sharp—a nice blazer, polished shoes, walking with purpose—people tend to notice. Some pilots walk around looking sloppy, and I hate to see it. I've definitely had a lot more interest once I put the airline uniform on.

Dr. Bawa: How are women showing interest?

Captain: A lot of times I'll get a phone number. A flight attendant might say, 'Hey, 4D really likes you, and here's her phone number.' Four-D being a seat. It's happened more than once.

Captain: Every time I get on an airplane, part of my briefing is, 'Keep an eye out for my future ex-wife, so let me know if you see her.' We have fun. I like to make my flight attendants laugh, and that breaks the ice.

Dr. Bawa: Tell me some fun stories about women chasing you.

Captain: There's 4D, of course, and then the occasional flight attendant. I have a very strict policy: I don't shit where I eat.

Captain: That's not saying I won't chase a flight attendant from another airline, but for the airline I work for, there is nothing faster in this universe than the flight-attendant rumor mill. I can hook up with a girl in New York and before I even get to California, people know about it. So I tend to stay away from that. There's a lot of drama.

Captain: I honestly don't have many stories because, like I said, I was married for 12 years and I had to bat them away, especially overseas. Kuala Lumpur was a nightmare. Just going out to get a beer was a nightmare. Hong Kong—every time I walked into the hotel it was, 'You want a massage? You want a massage?'

Dr. Bawa: No happy-ending massages for you.

Captain: No happy-ending massages for me. Had I known I was going to end up divorced anyway, I would have had a lot more fun. You live and learn.

[15:25] Aviation-Induced Divorce Syndrome

Dr. Bawa: Let's talk about something a little less exciting. Talk to me about aviation-induced divorce syndrome.

Captain: AIDS. It is very much a thing, and it can happen for any number of reasons. A lot of guys I know get divorced simply because they're gone all the time. The wife gets lonely or busy. It happened to me. I came home and suddenly I was no longer a husband. It happened almost overnight.

Captain: Sometimes the husband is cheating because he finds somebody on the road. Sometimes the wife does while the husband is gone. It's unfortunate. It happens a lot. I thought I was immune from it. I thought my marriage was going to last forever, and next thing I knew, I was divorced.

Dr. Bawa: I have a friend who's an airline captain. He divorced his first wife because he came home early from a trip, did laundry, was putting away her underwear, and found pictures of her with his best friend—who was also a pilot—in her drawer. She had become a flight attendant at that point.

Captain: That's a kick in the gut. And that happens. I wish I had a magic pill to figure out how to stop it, but I have plenty of friends who have managed successful marriages in this industry. It's usually a second or third marriage by the time they finally figure it out. Maybe my third marriage I'll figure it out, but I'm not holding out hope.

Dr. Bawa: Wait, you've only been married once.

Captain: That I'm aware of. I do have a 12-hour blackout I can't account for.

Dr. Bawa: So there's another screw-up you have to do, and then you'll have the long one.

Captain: Probably. I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be fun.

[17:39] Airline Threesomes and Young Pilots

Dr. Bawa: Changing gears: are airline threesomes really a thing?

Captain: Sadly, not for me, but I know plenty who claim it's happened for them. It's usually the young single guys living off Las Olas in Fort Lauderdale. I flew with one kid I wanted to throttle by the time the flight was over because he would not shut up about all of his opportunities.

Dr. Bawa: You're calling somebody a kid. How old are we talking?

Captain: Late twenties, early thirties.

Dr. Bawa: And you're not exactly a hundred years old yourself.

Captain: No, I'm 45. But you know, the kids these days. I'm soon going to be the angry old man yelling at clouds.

Dr. Bawa: You do take good pictures of clouds. What phone do you use?

Captain: The iPhone. I spent about $2,000 on a beautiful DSLR camera and I've never used it. The best camera is the one that's in your pocket. The iPhone 13 Pro Max is amazing. It takes really good pictures, which I post on Instagram.

[18:56] Clouds, Barbecue and Life Off the Flight Deck

Dr. Bawa: And what is your Instagram? People want to see these beautiful pictures.

Captain: Not just pictures of clouds—I also post the things I barbecue. I'm pretty good with a Weber grill.

Dr. Bawa: How come I have never once eaten your barbecue food in all these years?

Captain: Because I'm an idiot.

Dr. Bawa: I think you are an idiot, yes.

Captain: I'll smoke you a brisket just for that.

Dr. Bawa: I'll have to bring the boys.

Captain: You'll have to bring the boys because it's a lot of brisket. I wake up at four o'clock in the morning to do it properly.

Dr. Bawa: That's commitment.

Captain: Well, you have to drink sometime.

Dr. Bawa: I'll need a doggy bag to go home with that one.

Captain: We can arrange that.

[19:36] UFOs and Google Loon

Dr. Bawa: Let me ask you a crazy question. Have you ever seen any UFOs?

Captain: I can neither confirm nor deny that.

Dr. Bawa: That's a boring reply.

Captain: Flying at night, I have seen unusual things, although not necessarily a UFO. I once saw one of Google's Loon balloons. Google used to have these very large high-altitude balloons carrying telecommunications equipment—basically Wi-Fi from the sky.

Captain: Using prevailing winds, they could move by changing altitude. The idea was to provide internet and communications to disaster areas or places where infrastructure wasn't available. After the hurricane went through Puerto Rico, there were several floating around there.

Dr. Bawa: That's cool.

Captain: I was flying back from the East Coast toward Fort Lauderdale at around 38,000 feet and saw this big silver orb floating above me. It looked like it was sitting still.

Captain: I called air traffic control and asked if they saw anything on radar. The controller sounded surprised that I could see it. It looked like it was up around 60,000 feet. Most commercial airplanes are in the high 30s or low 40s and usually don't go much above 45,000 feet. She told me it was one of the Google Loon balloons.

Dr. Bawa: I haven't seen one of those.

Captain: They're cool.

[21:49] Favorite Trips and Life as a Single Pilot

Dr. Bawa: Favorite trip ever?

Captain: Are we talking destination or crew? Because I've got a couple of fun stories.

Dr. Bawa: I'm talking crew. If there isn't one, then I'm talking destination.

Captain: Then it's going to have to be destination because what happens on the road stays on the road.

Captain: My favorite destinations were always South America—Buenos Aires, São Paulo, Santiago, Chile. I love the food, the people, the atmosphere, the environment, and now that I'm single, the women. Before, I was married, but I could still appreciate the scenery.

Dr. Bawa: Now that people are going to know about your Instagram, you may get very popular all over again.

Captain: I might.

Dr. Bawa: Especially if they see pictures of you in that uniform.

Captain: I might have to post some more selfies then.

Dr. Bawa: You might have to. Well, Captain, thank you for coming. It was lovely talking to you, and I'm sure my listeners loved every minute of it.

Captain: I certainly hope so. It's been a pleasure.

[23:05] Recorded Outro

Dr. Bawa: I hope you enjoyed the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast today. I would love to continue this conversation with you. If you would like my top three secrets for amazing sex, send me an email at askme@drsexfairy.com and I will share them with you. Don't forget to follow this podcast and leave me a five-star review. Until next time.