Ep. 18 - Sex and Shame: A Vicious Cycle

[00:12] Introduction: Sex and Shame

Ep. 18 - Sex and Shame: A Vicious Cycle

Host: Dr. Kanwal Bawa | Guest: Dr. Christopher Ryan Jones | Runtime: 38:24 | Published: April 11, 2022

Dr. Bawa: Welcome to the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. I am Dr. Kanwal Bawa, and I am here, as always, to transform your life. Shame and sex seem to be intrinsically connected. Not only do people feel ashamed of their sexuality, they often judge each other over sexuality as well. I practice skin rejuvenation, hair restoration, and sexual wellness at my medical practice, Bawa Medical. I am often told that I am ruining my brand by practicing sexual medicine and being so open about it. I find that interesting because if it wasn't for sex, none of us would be here today. Even if someone does IVF, the sperm and the egg still come from someone who was born as a result of sex. Today I have with me in the studio Dr. Christopher Ryan Jones, who is a clinical psychologist and sex therapist. Dr. Jones has a wonderful podcast of his own called Sex Therapy with Dr. Jones. Welcome, Dr. Jones. Thank you so much for being here today.

Dr. Jones: Thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure.

Dr. Bawa: I am happy we could make this work. So let me start with the most basic question everyone has, at least the most basic question I have, and that is, why are people so ashamed when it comes to sex?

[01:42] Where Sexual Shame Comes From

Dr. Jones: You know, that's a good question, and there's so many reasons why people have shame when it comes to sex. It could be from cultural backgrounds that they may have. You know, every culture has a different view and perspective when it comes to sex. Same is said about different religious backgrounds, and even within a culture, each family has a different way that they think about sex, that they've seen their parents model. I don't mean model sex, but the way they see their parents model their interactions with each other, the way they hold hands or they kiss, or if they stay distance from apart, all of this has an effect on the way that we think about and view sex. And then if you think about the way that our greater culture, through media, through politics, imposes these ideas and these values on us, it can make us be very shameful when it comes to ideas of sex, sexuality, and gender.

Dr. Jones: It's unfortunate, really, because we should be able to have honest conversations, and sex should not be as taboo as it is.

Dr. Bawa: Right, and in a lot of places, even talking about sex is taboo. And for those who are listening who think, Well, I talk about sex all the time, you will never imagine the number of people who just in public saying the word sex, they feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. And I've seen this from traveling all over the world and talking to people. It is always, it doesn't matter where I go, it is the one topic that in public, we don't know if we should talk about it. And sadly, this is in relationships too. So many couples think sex is something we should be doing, not something we should be talking about, and that's really sad. That is sad. What are the effects of a shameful point of view of sex, both individually and in a relationship?

Dr. Jones: You know, there are so many harmful effects, and I cannot think of one positive effect of not wanting to talk about sex. I'm not even talking about just shame. We're not talking about just shame. We're talking about even just being fearful of talking about sex. There's not a positive side effect to this. In certain parts, especially in the U.S., there are communities that think that talking about sex leads to having more sex, leads to, you know, promiscuous behavior, a rise in STIs. In fact, the opposite is true. The less they talk about sex, and statistics shows that parents who talk to their children early on about sex, the children wait a little bit longer before they have sex. They have sex later in life, and so they're less likely to become pregnant, have unwanted pregnancy, or have, you know, STIs. In a relationship, it's problematic because we find that couples who talk about sex have sex more frequently.

Dr. Jones: That sounds pretty good, like, you know, and because you're talking about it, you are able to communicate with your partner the things you like and the things you dislike. So you have more enjoyable sex. So of course you have more sex. Of course, with shame, there's a lot of problems. Like we become disconnected from ourselves because we are sexual beings. And I don't just mean sexual beings as in the form of having intercourse, but just our very biological makeup is ingrained in us, our sex and our sexuality. So when we are shameful of that, this leads to a number of issues: sexual dysfunctions, premature ejaculation, delayed ejaculation, erectile dysfunction. It also has problems with our self-esteem, the way that we view ourselves as individuals, our body image, and of course in our relationships, sexual dysfunctions play a big role in causing problems when connecting with other people.

Dr. Jones: It could cause us to be fearful and not want to connect with other people at all, causing attachment issues. So shame is a problem that if anyone listening is dealing with, it's something they should really work through in order to be healthier and happier in their own lives.

[05:44] Erectile Dysfunction and the Shame Cycle

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned erectile dysfunction, and many of my patients struggle with that. And what I find sad is that erectile dysfunction, of course, causes problems in the bedroom. But when men are so anxious about it, then it causes even more erectile dysfunction because now they're unable to perform. So the shame associated with not being able to get that erection makes matters worse.

Dr. Jones: Absolutely. So we see this all the time with men who come in with issues of erectile dysfunction. And if you have a listener who says, Oh, I've struggled with erectile dysfunction, you're not alone. Like statistically, most men will experience some erectile dysfunction sometime in their life. It's not always physiological. A lot of times it's psychological. It could be because of simple things just like diet that could change problems with erectile functioning. And you're right. The problem is guys feel embarrassed about this. They have shame that not only that they're not able to get an erection, they feel shameful of what their partner might think. And then some guys feel shame because they're unable to please their partner. So it becomes this continual cycle that hinders them from being free and experiencing an erection. So the very thing they're shameful about and fearful about, it's like an ongoing cycle, and it's very damaging to a lot of people.

[07:13] Women, Orgasms and Faking It

Dr. Bawa: I agree with you 100%, and I find that women are stuck in the same cycle as well because when they suffer from vaginal issues or orgasm disorder, they're unable to have an orgasm, but they're faking it. Now, men fake it too, I agree, but women fake it way more because they can. It's a lot easier for a woman to fake it than it is for a man to fake it. So women are faking it as well. And again, they're ashamed. They don't want to be seen as someone who's not able to perform or be like, you know, the porn star version. Women have these ideals that they're living up to sometimes warped, but it is what it is. And then they don't tell their partner that they're not orgasming. You know, he or she, the partner thinks they're performing just great, and nothing ever changes.

Dr. Jones: That's so true. I see a lot of females who have this problem. A lot of women come in because they said, I've never had an orgasm, never really enjoyed sex to begin with. And a lot of times this has to do with a lack of sex education. Where does that lack of sex education come from? Shame around sex, the very thing that we're talking about. So they come to therapy, like you said, they can easily fake it for their partner, but it does really have a psychological effect on them and their ability to connect with themselves and with their partners. And a lot of that can be easily solved by simple sex education and sex positivity. And again, what we've talked about is communication.

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. Communication is key. One hundred percent. Now, what do you—

[08:48] Porn Is Entertainment, Not Sex Education

Dr. Jones: And for what you said about porn stars, I'm sorry. What you said about porn stars is so true because so many people see porn. Women have— I see more women who have difficulty with porn than men. And when I mean by difficulty, women often compare themselves to what they see on the screen. So they say, Well, I have to be immediately turned on as soon as my partner touches me. I have to be able to have a screaming orgasm within a certain amount of time. Or, you know, I have to be able to have sex for 45 minutes to an hour, when in actuality most men ejaculate within five minutes. Now, I know some people are listening, they're like, Oh, I like to have sex for an hour, and that's true. You may, and if that's the case, go for it, have fun. But when women sometimes come in and complain that they have a lot of soreness because they've been having sex for such a long period of time, it's because— That long period of time is not within the average range.

Dr. Jones: So they should never compare themselves to what they see on television or what they see in porn, and understand that sex, or that porn, rather, is good sex entertainment, but it's not good sex education.

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. And I will tell you from someone who works with porn stars quite often and works in the adult entertainment industry, what you see in the movies or on whatever website is so highly edited and not as much penetration. This, I don't know, I'm going to ruin my career now because no one's going to want to work with me in the adult entertainment industry. But unless you actual see the penetration, no penetration is going on. That's a little trade secret in the adult entertainment industry. So you're trying to mimic something that even the porn stars are unable to do.

Dr. Jones: That's interesting. I didn't know that.

Dr. Bawa: Fun fact. I'm telling all the secrets. Imagine that. See, who knew you were all that knowledgeable? So another issue that I see is you talked about porn stars, and some of my patients are struggling with body image. They are not confident with their bodies. They are embarrassed of their naked body in front of their partner, and I find that that shame leads to a lesser experience, of course, but they find that they are not even able to connect with their partner because of it.

Dr. Jones: Yeah, with the shame with body image, of course, they cannot connect with their partner because they cannot connect with themselves. Like there is this disconnect of—and I've even had clients who have had just, and I'm sure you have too, they're just disgusted with the way they look. And this really, this affects their self-esteem, which creates more anxiety, leads to more sexual dysfunction. And that's really unfortunate because it is our body that enables us to experience so much pleasure. And that's one of the things that I try to work with clients when they come in with this issue, is finding ways to appreciate your body. Again, it's our body that gives us the pleasure that we feel during these experiences. And recognizing that if our body is able to give us these feelings and to make us feel the way it does, then maybe we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves, and we shouldn't necessarily always compare ourselves with others.

Dr. Jones: Again, I'll use the example of porn because I've seen so many women who have come to therapy, and they said, Oh, my husband doesn't want to have sex with me. I don't look like the women in the porn films. Well, the husband's never said this, right? The husband's like, Why isn't my— I think my wife is so beautiful and so sexy, and she will not have sex with me. And she's like, Well, I don't look like these women on the porn stars. And I always tell them, you know, I like to watch mafia movies. It doesn't mean I'm in the mafia, right? You can have fantasies about things that are not necessarily the only thing you're attracted to or the only thing that you want. And so we shouldn't compare ourselves in that way. I don't think it's very fair.

Dr. Bawa: Agreed. Female clients have had with porn— there's more than this. I don't think that's fair.

[12:58] Porn, Desire Discrepancy and Communication

Dr. Jones: Let me say, let me frame it in this way. I have been in therapy training sessions where therapists who have suggested, when working with clients that have fantasy discrepancies, right, or arousal discrepancies, that they should watch porn together. Now— Call me old-fashioned. I think this is the worst absolute way, or the worst absolute treatment you can give to a couple, because you don't know the perception of porn. So for some females, and I'm sure for some males as well, but I see this a lot with women, that either they compare themselves to the women they see, and this gives them body image issues, or they think that maybe their partner isn't attracted to them because they don't look like what they see, or they think that their partner wants them to perform like what they see. So they avoid sex, right? Like, they avoid sex.

Dr. Jones: The other issue is sometimes it does create a desire discrepancy, meaning that the guy could have fantasies about stuff that he's watching, not necessarily the people, but maybe certain kinks or fetishes that he may have that he's watching in porn, and he's never communicated this with his partner. And so there's a discrepancy when they have sex, and he's unable to orgasm. And a lot of times people would say, Well, this is a porn addiction, when it's really not a porn addiction. Really, it boils down to they have never had a— This is going outside of shame. I'm so sorry to go into so much detail with this.

Dr. Bawa: No, no, this is good. Go ahead.

Dr. Jones: But the issue really is that there is a discrepancy between what he's seeing and what he actually wants to do in the bedroom, and he's never communicated this with his partner. So the real conversation is not whether the porn is good or bad. The real conversation should be, What is this porn doing? Why are you watching this porn? Females come often, they say, Well, I've caught my male partner watching porn and masturbating. Well, masturbation relieves stress, so just watching porn and masturbating, he could just be doing because he's trying to relieve stress, just like somebody would go to the gym. Instead, they think, well, he's trying to replace me, and I often have to educate them around the fact that porn is different than interacting with another person. It's different than sex. When you're having sex with someone, you have to be vulnerable. You have to be there. You have to be present.

Dr. Jones: You cannot just press pause and stop the video as soon as you're finished or fast forward to the parts that you like. You have to go through the long process of arousal. You have to go through the long process of actually performing intercourse, and then you have the aftercare. And so it's a totally different experience, and the two shouldn't be compared. Sorry, too much.

Dr. Bawa: No, no, no, not at all.

[16:10] Masturbation, Sex Toys and Self-Discovery

Dr. Jones: You know, no matter where I go, it doesn't matter what university I'm speaking at, where I'm seeing clients, what conference I'm at, someone always comes to me with this question. This is always the question. Usually it's in connection with masturbation, right? Because most people when they're watching porn, they're not just sitting back on the couch eating a piece of cake and watching porn. They're usually masturbating at some point when they're watching porn. Although cake is, if cake is your thing while you're watching porn, go for it. But most people do it, and so that goes to the real question is, and this goes back to shame, right? Because society, we have this idea of, like, sex addiction, like people are addicted to porn, they're addicted to masturbation. So people are like, well, I don't want to masturbate too much. I don't want to have an addiction and have a problem later on in life.

Dr. Jones: And I always tell them, the fact that you're here at this conference or at this workshop or wherever we're at, the fact that you're here at therapy, as long as you're able to maintain your grades, maintain going to work, whatever it is you do in your life, and have a social life, masturbate as much as you'd like. Like, go for it. There's a famous boxer who just became world champion, Tyson Fury, who said that he credits his win to the fact that he masturbates seven times a day. Now, am I telling everybody, if you want to be like him, you need to masturbate seven times a day? I'm not telling you that at all. What I'm saying is you need to masturbate, or you should masturbate, in a way that lines up with your values and that makes you feel comfortable. And if you are satisfied and happy with masturbating once a day, once a week, five times a day, five times a week, whatever, it's up to the individual person.

Dr. Bawa: No, I've actually had patients come in who are very ashamed of the fact that they're even masturbating, and very ashamed of the fact that they even have a sex toy and they hide it from their partner.

Dr. Jones: This happens all the time. You're so right. And to me, it's very unfortunate because as a sex therapist, I—and I'm a firm believer in masturbation, and I'm a firm believer in sex toys. I don't even necessarily call them sex toys. I think they're more like sexual health aids or sexual health tools because they're very important for self-discovery. And masturbation is very important. Like, there are health benefits to masturbation. I've done quite a few studies on those. I did one in 2020 on the benefits of masturbation during menstruation. But we also know that not only does it help relieve pain, we know that it helps have a better quality of sleep. We know that it puts people in a better mood. So there are all of these benefits, reducing stress and so forth, and masturbation is so beneficial. Even blood pressure.

Dr. Jones: But what I think is something they really rob themselves with is that self-discovery, because when they masturbate, they can really discover their body, discover what it is they like, what it is that they don't like, so that later they can communicate this with their partner and have a much more fulfilling and enjoyable sex life.

[19:20] Are Adult Performers Ashamed?

Dr. Bawa: Now let's go back to porn stars. You mentioned that you see a lot of them in therapy. Are they ashamed of themselves, since shame is so pervasive in our society?

Dr. Jones: So, I will tell you, when I first started in sex therapy, I had a client. She was a college student, and I always tell the story, and I always say it was really one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my entire life. Absolutely gorgeous. She was a psychology student, and she was coming to therapy. She worked not in porn, but she was working as a stripper, okay? And nowadays, I think when we think about porn, it's because of OnlyFans and things, the genre of porn has become so much bigger than just whatever DVDs are released. They don't even use DVDs anymore. But she had come to therapy, and she was not ashamed of the fact she was stripping. The reason she was in therapy was what led her to stripping. Now, some people are thinking, well, she was abused as a child, or, oh, this happened to her, or she just needed the money. None of those were the fact. And these ideas all come from shame, societal shame around sex. Like, that's why people think people do this.

Dr. Jones: She got into a profession where people had greater reactions to her than her boyfriend did. And so it wasn't that she had shame; it's that she had body issue images due to her partner. We did work through this. The problem her partner had was something that's easily solved, and in like four sessions, they were back at it and everything was going good. She still remained in the work, though, because she enjoyed it so much. So. No, I wouldn't say that they have shame. Sometimes they come in with issues related to how other people view their job and societal issues when it comes to that. So one person in particular, they wanted to have children, and they were worried about when they had children, how other people would respond to her child and would say things like, Oh, well, do you know who your dad is? Or, Oh, I bet your mom likes... I mean, terrible things that people say. And that's unfortunate.

Dr. Jones: So shame is involved, but it's usually not directly at the— not that they have shame about their sexuality. It's more external stimuli and variables.

[22:10] Culture Changes What Feels Shameful

Dr. Bawa: Now, you are a researcher. You teach. You see patients. You do it all. And you have studied different cultures as well. You live in Germany currently, for instance, so you've been all over the place. How do you think culture affects sexuality and shame?

Dr. Jones: So much. So much. And I will say that it's different depending on where you're at. So I'll use an example. A lot of Americans, they always think Europeans are so progressive when it comes to sex, right? Like they have this crazy notion. And I was shocked that this really isn't the case. They have more comfortability with nudity, but they disconnect nudity from sexuality or from sex. So when it comes to sex, I was very surprised when I got to Germany. And so in the U.S., talking to students about masturbation, everybody talks about masturbation. Like they make jokes about it, but they talk about it. They will never talk about masturbation. Like they're so nervous to talk about masturbation. Being nude is perfectly fine, though. So it's very different from culture to culture in what they see as shameful and what they can talk about and the way that they associate different variables.

Dr. Jones: So that's a lot of times why I tell people when we talk about sex therapy that it affects not only sexual performance, but it affects every area of sexuality, being sexual beings, and issues related to our gender.

Dr. Bawa: I'll tell you an interesting story. I had a German friend who was visiting, and I took him with me to a boca party. And he's very good-looking, and a lot of women were hitting on him and being very, very clear about their intentions. One actually pushed him into the bathroom and said, Let's, let's play, and he was just horrified. And he came out white as a ghost, and he said, What is wrong with women in your country? He was just shocked. And it is shocking like this,

Dr. Jones: right? But at the same time, though, while you would never make those type of advancements, I have found things like hookup culture is more common here because in the U.S. particularly, when people go on dates, they date for the— Sorry for that beep. That's fine, no problem. It's fine, it's fine. I don't know why I'm beeping. It's okay. I find that in the U.S., a lot of people go on dates because they want to find a partner. They want to find someone they could be in a relationship with, maybe lead to marriage. In Germany, it's not so much that case. You know, they split the bill in the end. You know, the guy pays for his, the girl pays for hers. Then they say, Oh, if you want to have sex, you can have sex. You know, there's no rule of, like, you know, third date thing before we have sex. You know, they just decide sporadically and knowing that there's no real intentions for anything. So it's very much cultural. And this obviously affects the way we think about sex in general, right?

Dr. Jones: Like what we think is sexual norms or how we think that sex should take place. And of course, shame is a big factor in that.

[25:12] Sex, Chemistry and Indian Culture

Dr. Bawa: It's interesting you talked about the third date, and I have seen studies where couples who had sex on the first and second date actually ended up together longer.

Dr. Jones: Yeah, I think that a lot of that has to do with the connection that people have. So I don't want anybody listening to think, okay, well, if I really, you know, that's a good persuasion technique for a guy after like the third glass of wine, you know.

Dr. Bawa: I'm not telling people to go run out and have sex.

Dr. Jones: No, no, I'm not saying that. But you're right, and I think that has everything to do with feeling a connection and a chemistry with that person. And that's something that is very important to have, especially if you don't have great sex.

Dr. Bawa: Oh, absolutely. Chemistry is everything. And I think that one has to have chemistry, one has to not feel that shame. And cultural issues, coming back to them, are a big deal. I grew up in India. We have a billion people, and clearly we're having a lot of sex. We don't talk about it, and that's improving.

Dr. Jones: No, and what's very interesting about what we see in India, especially coming again from a U.S. perspective, as a sex therapist, when you're being trained in sex therapy, one of the things you have to be trained in is the history of sexology, right, or like the history of sex. And they always go back, they always, they want to talk about like the Kama Sutra. They want to talk about some Indian temple designs which feature very graphic sexual depictions, right? And the idea in the American mindset, well, obviously if they have these things depicted, then they're more open and freely talking about that. But I have found when working with Hindu clients, that's not the case at all. Like this is a very complicated issue even within marriages for couples to talk with each other about issues of sex.

Dr. Bawa: A hundred percent. Growing up, we didn't talk about it. It's not something we discussed with our parents. It just wasn't the done thing.

Dr. Jones: And that goes back to that modeling we talked about in the very beginning. Like, where does the shame come from? How did you see your parents interact with each other? Even simple things like, did your parents ever discuss sex? Did your parents often hold hands? Did, you know, they cuddle on the couch? You know, these things really impact the way that we think about sex in our lives.

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. Now, I was lucky. My parents had a very warm relationship. Did they always get along? No, but they were very affectionate towards each other, and that was okay in my family. So I grew up with a healthier point of view. But I saw people that I was going to school with who were very, very hush-hush about it, much more so than I would have ever been in my family. And, you know, my parents and I joked about sex occasionally. So I think it matters even within the culture, I guess, your own personal experience. So we can't generalize. But yes, in general, I come from a culture that does not like to talk about it.

Dr. Jones: And that also goes back to what I talked about earlier about how I like to approach therapy often from Bronfenbrenner's ecological systems theory, right? So we have the microsystem, which is the areas closest to us. It's our family, it's our peers, you know, the people we're around. And as we move further away from the person, there's also these other influences. So, you know, when we talk about society, the way society in general is, and how that even interacts with your microsystem, how that interacts with the way your family might think one thing, the society might think another, all of that plays an impact on your development and the way that you view sex.

[29:02] Sexual Shame in Modern America

Dr. Bawa: What do you think about Shame and sex in U.S. society. I mean, it's the year 2022. What are we doing now? What's happening?

Dr. Jones: Yeah, what's crazy is it is 2022, and there's still so much shame even talking about sex, right? Like, we see this with sex education in schools and how terrible that is. We see this with the way that sex is modeled on television and in media. And speaking of media, social media. I don't know, so Instagram, for one, does not like you using the word sex. They will shadow ban you in a heartbeat. You can post photos almost completely naked for some reason, but if you use the word sex, even in the context of therapy, and as a clinical practice, I myself get shadow banned all the time and post deleted when talking about sexual health and wellness. It happens to me all the time.

Dr. Bawa: In fact, my original account on Instagram was Dr. Sex Fairy. They deleted that account, and I couldn't claim that name again. So I tried for doctor with D-O-C-T-O-R spelled out. They deleted that, and now I have the real Dr. Sex Fairy. We'll see how long that lasts.

Dr. Jones: It's unfortunate because I'm a doctor just like you, and I'm talking about it from a clinical point of view. And because I'm saying sex or vagina or, God forbid, penis, God help me, my post gets deleted, and I get a warning about how I violated community standards, quote unquote. This is really shameful. I've always tried, especially on my podcast and in my practice, I always use anatomically correct terminology, right? I don't usually use slang. I don't want to say slanderous, but I don't use casual terminology for things. I try to use very—

Dr. Bawa: Correct terminology.

Dr. Jones: Surprisingly, this isn't even good enough for Instagram. And I've had arguments with people at Instagram with the same thing you just said. I'm a clinical practitioner. We're talking about sexual health. This is a very important part of a person's overall sexual—not just their sexual well-being, but their overall physical and mental well-being. Once they have maybe gone rescinded their retraction of my stuff, but typically they don't care at all. Like, you know, and I go into it. I'm like, look, I'm a member of the American Psychological Association, you know, and I go through a detail. They don't care. They really don't care. But they're doing harm. And for those who are listening who are like, well, how is this harmful? Well, when you are unable to provide information concerning sexual health and wellness, you are putting people at risk. You are putting people at higher risk of infections. And let's talk about that for a moment. You know, we've been talking about shame.

Dr. Jones: We talk about sexually transmitted infections. Most of all are very curable. Most all sexually transmitted infections are curable. And I cannot tell you the number of clients who have come who, because they are so fearful or ashamed to go talk to a doctor about this or to take medication in order to prevent even the infections. And this could easily be avoidable because a lot of times it's from just a simple lack of knowledge. But we can't get the word out there.

[32:34] STIs, HIV and Stigma

Dr. Bawa: We cannot get the word out there. You're trying from the psychological point of view and the research point of view. I'm trying from the medical sexual wellness point of view, where I'm doing treatments and changing lives medically. I can't get the word out. And, you know, you mentioned STIs. Now, I always joke that, you know, your relationship is temporary, but herpes is forever. But how am I supposed to explain to people how not to get it or how to treat themselves once they do have it? Can't get that out because all of this is being banned. And, you know, talking about shame and herpes, my God, I have patients who have trauma from having herpes because they are so embarrassed, they feel dirty. Yet so many people have it.

Dr. Jones: Well, let's talk about, like, HPV, for example, right? Like, here we have something that's a lot of times not even that detectable. A lot of women, it could lead to ovarian cancer if they have it, though, right?

Dr. Bawa: Cervical cancer.

Dr. Jones: Cervical cancer, sorry. Cervical cancer. But we don't have a culture where it's even free to disclose any of this information to a partner. That's problem one. I see this a lot, especially when talking with clients about, like, HIV, right? Which we have wonderful medications. They're now doing testing for now that they could get a shot once a month for HIV. They've even—I'm told that in the UK they have now healed somebody from HIV. There's a woman who's now been cleared of HIV altogether through some clinical trials. We're making huge progress in this field. You can have HIV and it be fully undetectable in your system and you cannot pass it on. Most people don't even know this. Most people are still living in the '80s. I see clients who are fear—I see mostly gay clients who are fearful of contracting HIV because they don't know anything, like, about PrEP or proper condom use even. We're in 2022. People don't know about proper condom use. It's crazy.

Dr. Bawa: No, I agree, because I actually have only one couple, and I have a lot of patients, and I have only one couple where we have a patient with HIV and his partner does not because he takes the medications, he's proactive about it, and they have a happy, loving relationship. So it's sad that it's such, such a no-no in today's society that people are still that paranoid about it. I mean, I'm not saying we want it, but life does not end with HIV anymore. You can live a pretty normal life with it.

Dr. Jones: I always tell people that people no longer die from HIV; they usually die with HIV, right? And that's the problem, is that we do not have these conversations. There's so much stigma and shame associated with STIs, and so we don't share this with our partner. And when we don't share this with our partner, guess what happens? We end up having a greater chance of spreading these type of infections.

[35:37] Building Sexual Confidence

Dr. Bawa: So what do you recommend that people do to feel better about themselves, both sexually and in life overall? I'm not talking like New Age connection. You don't need to be chanting in the corner, lighting candles with crystals everywhere.

Dr. Jones: Although I do often recommend that when clients masturbate, which is a great way to connect to yourself. It's a great way to understand and explore your body and learn these things. This is something I often recommend. And I do tell clients a lot of times, I don't want you to just do it mechanically, just where you're doing it to get it over with. I want you to do it as an explorative exercise. So have a nice bath or a nice warm shower, light some candles, lay on nice soft blankets, take your time to set the mood and explore your body. And I think this is a great way to connect.

Dr. Jones: And we've seen studies that have shown that for people with poor body image, when they realize that their body can give them so much pleasure, they are able to regain More confidence in their body and to appreciate their body more, which, for those who are interested in weight loss or anything like this, having this perspective of your body, that your body is not your enemy, and you're starting to appreciate your body, gives you more motivation to do whatever changes that you want to do in your life to better yourself, to be healthier and happier.

[37:05] Closing

Dr. Bawa: Those are wise words, and I would like to thank you so very much for coming on the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. I'm sure many, many people appreciate all the words of wisdom you have given us. How can people learn more about you?

Dr. Jones: So they can visit my website, which is sextherapypodcast.com. That's also my clinical site, which is clinicalsextherapy.com. And they could also check out the podcast, which is Sex Therapy with Dr. Jones. It's available anywhere that podcasts are found.

Dr. Bawa: And it's a great podcast. I listen to it myself. So thank you, Dr. Jones.

Dr. Jones: No, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Bawa: Were you saying something? You want to record that again?

Dr. Jones: Yeah, I was saying, yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Bawa: Thank you for coming. Until next time.

[37:50] Recorded Outro

Dr. Bawa: I hope you enjoyed the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast today. I would love to continue this conversation with you. If you would like my top three secrets for amazing sex, send me an email at askme@drsexfairy.com, and I will share them with you. Don't forget to follow this podcast and leave me a five-star review. Until next time.