Ep. 76: The Secret Lives of Swingers 🍍

[00:12] Introduction and How Dan and Lacy Met

Dr. Bawa: Welcome to America’s beloved sex podcast, Dr. Sex Fairy. I am Dr. Kanwal Bawa, America’s favorite sex doctor, and I am here to transform your life. Today we are talking about a topic you chuckle about every now and then, but likely know little about, and that topic is swingers. I have with me Dan and Lacy, hosts of The Swing Nation Podcast. They are a married couple and are very open about being in what is known as the lifestyle. They are here to answer all our questions, including why this lifestyle works for them. Welcome, Dan and Lacy.

Dan: Thank you, Dr. Bawa. Happy to be here.

Lacy: Thank you.

Dr. Bawa: Thank you so much for coming on the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. Let’s start with your story. How did you both meet?

Lacy: Well, I guess I’ll start. We were both on a swinger website as singles. I was a single female, which was a unicorn, and he was a single male, which was a bull. I saw his profile and messaged him. I said, ‘How are we the same age and living in the same city, but we don’t know each other?’ Come to find out, he was actually there for work. He had changed his location to my city because he was there for that week. We ended up chatting, and we really hit it off. What would you say, babe?

Dan: I was traveling for work, and she messaged me. At first, I thought it was fake. I thought it was somebody spamming me and trying to get pictures or something like that. I thought, ‘There is no way this beautiful young lady is messaging me on a swinger app.’ They call them unicorns for a reason. Single females in the swinger lifestyle are very, very hard to come by. I was super skeptical, but she messaged me and said she would like to meet up. She sent me some pictures that made her seem real, and sure enough, she was. I think we very much intended to have a friends-with-benefits type of relationship, but it quickly spiraled into us being inseparable, and here we are.

[02:02] From Friends with Benefits to Marriage

Lacy: It really worked out because we never planned to be together. We just became really good friends who would have sex when he came into town. Because we were really good friends, conversations naturally started happening about what we wanted in the future and whether we would ever be in a monogamous relationship. Somehow, we fell for each other while having all of those conversations. Then we got engaged, and then we were married. It has been a crazy journey. We never expected to meet someone in the lifestyle who would become our forever partner.

[02:36] Who Typically Swings?

Dr. Bawa: Interesting. Are swingers usually married couples?

Dan: Yes. For the most part, a lot of the couples you meet have been together for a long time. Many have been together 10 or 20-plus years, and they found the lifestyle because they were looking to spice things up.

Dan: Since COVID, it seems that the lifestyle and the entire non-monogamous community have attracted more interest. With apps like TikTok and other social media platforms, more people are discovering it. You are starting to see more dating couples and even singles showing up at events. It is definitely a growing community, but for the most part, you are looking at married couples in their upper 30s, 40s, and 50s.

[03:28] Soft Swap vs. Full Swap

Dr. Bawa: What is the difference between soft swap and full swap?

Lacy: Soft swap is usually how people start in the lifestyle. It is everything except penetration, in whatever version the couple wants that to be. A full-swap couple is open to doing anything, obviously with consent and boundaries being respected.

Dan: Every couple has different limits and boundaries, but these key terms help us communicate and give each other a basic idea. When you first meet a couple, it is common to exchange information such as, ‘We are a soft-swap, same-room couple,’ or, ‘We are a full-swap couple that will play in separate rooms.’

Dan: After you get the basics out of the way, people dig deeper. A couple might say, ‘We are soft swap, but we do not kiss.’ There are all kinds of boundaries, and every couple is different. We advocate having those conversations and going through your boundaries with the other couple so that nobody accidentally oversteps and causes hurt feelings.

[04:33] What Counts as Cheating?

Dr. Bawa: What is considered cheating in the swinger world?

Lacy: Every couple is going to have a different answer. For Dan and me, everything we do is agreed to before we do it. If one of us went off separately, the other person did not know, and it had not been agreed to beforehand, that would be considered cheating.

Lacy: We also do all of our communication through group messaging. That is one of our boundaries. If we meet a potential couple or a potential single, every communication we have with that person includes all of us in the group chat. Anything outside of that would be along the lines of cheating.

Dan: Basically, anything involving deception. If one partner is trying to deceive the other and is not being fully open and honest about what is taking place, that is when you cross the line into cheating.

Lacy: A lot of people think swinging is just a free-for-all or that it is simply an open marriage. In fact, we have pretty strict boundaries. I do not like to call them rules, but we have things in place to protect our marriage so those things do not happen.

[05:34] Jealousy in the Lifestyle

Dr. Bawa: Do you ever get jealous?

Dan: I guess I will start this one. Yes, we get jealous all the time. That is another question we are asked all the time on TikTok and in other places. Jealousy is a normal human reaction. If I did not get jealous, that would almost be a red flag to me and make me question how committed I was to the relationship.

Dan: The true question is how you deal with and process that emotion. For Lacy and me, it often comes down to open communication: ‘When you did this, it made me feel jealous,’ or, ‘It made me feel this way.’ Sometimes that leads us to change a boundary. Often, it simply means communicating and reassuring your partner that it was not your intention to hurt them, that you still love them more than anything, and that they are the most important person to you. Communicating through it is the best way we have found to deal with jealousy.

Lacy: Sometimes just getting it off my chest makes me feel better. I am typically the more jealous one between the two of us. I have always struggled a little with jealousy, even in monogamous relationships, so I am not surprised that it still exists in a non-monogamous relationship. I tend to communicate my feelings immediately—where my mind is and how I am feeling—and that helps me so much.

[06:59] Why They Continue Swinging

Dr. Bawa: Why do you keep swinging now that you have found each other?

Dan: That is a great question. It is fun. We both enjoy it. With two people, there are only so many things you can do. When you have four, six, eight, or more people, it opens up many more possibilities.

Dan: We love the community. We are around open-minded people who do not judge you and do not necessarily care how much money you make or what kind of car you drive. It is a much more authentic connection with people. Honestly, the sex is great, the parties are fun, and we really enjoy the community aspect of it.

[07:34] Exploring Bisexuality and Shared Adventures

Lacy: I am bisexual, so it allows me to be adventurous with women while still maintaining my marriage to him. I am able to explore that side of myself safely and with consent, which is fun for me.

Lacy: We hear people say, ‘You are both so cute. Why would you do this? Why are you not enough for each other?’ We are enough. That is a big misconception. He is enough. If he looked at me today and said, ‘This is it. Let’s just be you and me,’ I would say, ‘Okay.’ Would I struggle with wanting to be naughty? Yes, but we would find a way to make it work for us. I think that is important for people to realize.

Dan: What I love about our relationship is that I found my life partner. We care about each other, have a house together, have children, and do all the normal married things. Then, on occasion, we are able to explore our fantasies together and have these wild sexual adventures.

Dan: The nice part is that your partner is beside you the entire time, often encouraging you. They are there to catch you if you make a mistake and build you up if you are not feeling confident. It is a very rewarding lifestyle, and I am happy to be part of it.

Lacy: Same.

Dr. Bawa: It works for you.

Dan: It certainly does.

[08:50] Orgies and Different Play Styles

Dr. Bawa: Do swingers have orgies often?

Dan: We do. Under the broad umbrella of swinging or non-monogamy, couples engage in the lifestyle in completely different ways. Some couples only bring a single male into their relationship, and that is the only play style they engage in. Other couples only bring in a single female. Some couples may have one other couple they play with.

Dan: Then there are swingers like us who enjoy parties and events. We like group play. We call it group play, but ‘orgy’ is also the correct term.

Lacy: We say ‘group play’ more often because on TikTok we have to censor ourselves, but yes, it is totally an orgy. We love them, and they are not necessarily what people imagine.

[09:36] Group Play Among Friends

Dan: People think an orgy is a group of strangers who meet up and immediately start going at it. For us, an orgy is usually two, three, or four other couples we are friends with and have often known for years. We may have had sex with them before in a setting that was not an orgy. We all get along and have a connection. If we can all get on the same bed and have fun, it makes it even more exciting and sexy.

[10:13] Consent During Group Play

Lacy: Consent is a very big part of orgies. People think everyone just gets on a bed and it becomes a free-for-all where you can touch and grab anyone. That is not the case, at least not in the situations we participate in. We are strong advocates for asking permission before doing anything.

Lacy: Just because someone is on the bed with you does not mean you have to do anything with them. We have been in many orgies where I did not have sex with several of the people on the bed, or vice versa. We have had people approach us in that situation, and we declined.

Dan: It is about learning your boundaries, knowing what you are comfortable with, and having your own voice.

Lacy: As a woman, I have always struggled a little with saying yes or no. I do not know why; I just have. The lifestyle has taught me how to have a voice and understand that, if I am not comfortable with something, it is okay to say no. But orgies are very fun. They are one of our favorite things to do.

Dan: We are big advocates for orgies. It is funny because we meet friends who say they do not like them at all, and we say, ‘Really? What is there not to like? It is so much fun.’

[11:26] Sex in Front of Each Other

Dr. Bawa: Are you literally in a situation where you are having penetrative sex with somebody else in front of each other?

Lacy: Oh, yes. That is our preference. We are a same-room couple, so everything is done where we can see each other. Sometimes we are on the same bed, and sometimes we are on separate beds. We prefer to be really close to each other. Sometimes we hold hands, lock eyes, or high-five.

Dan: We absolutely high-five. It is pretty awesome.

[11:56] Compersion: Pleasure from a Partner’s Pleasure

Dan: A lot of people do not understand that. We are strong advocates for the word compersion. For people who may not know what that means, compersion is getting pleasure from seeing your partner experience pleasure.

Dan: People may not recognize it in relation to sex, but think about baking your partner a cake. You see them eat it, light up, and enjoy the thing you made for them. That is the idea of compersion: seeing your partner experience pleasure brings you pleasure.

Dan: I enjoy seeing Lacy enjoy herself. It is very pleasurable for me, and I think it is the same for her. Many couples are familiar with jealousy, but not as many are familiar with compersion. It is a strong emotion that needs to be celebrated more.

Dr. Bawa: Different strokes for different folks. If it works for you, who are we to judge?

Dan: Exactly.

[12:56] Preventing Sexually Transmitted Infections

Dr. Bawa: I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but how do you keep from getting sexually transmitted infections?

Lacy: I was raised in the South, where school taught us that if you got an STD, your life was over. Through the lifestyle, we have learned more. Obviously, we do not want an STD, but most can be treated. Thankfully, we have never gotten one.

Lacy: We also do not simply hook up with random people. People hear the word ‘swinger’ and think everybody piles into a bed and has sex with everybody else. That is not the case for Dan and me. We try hard to get to know people, develop a level of trust, and become good friends before we get into bed. We always use protection. That is our number-one rule. We are also tested every three to four months because we do not want to be sick, and we do not want our friends to be sick.

[14:06] Testing, Protection, and Risk

Dan: There is a stigma that swingers are out there spreading STDs everywhere. In reality, swingers are generally an older and often more educated group of people. They educate themselves about STDs and ways to prevent them. As Lacy said, we always use protection, get tested regularly, and have conversations with the people we engage with about STDs.

Dan: We only engage with people we trust to tell us the truth and to have our best interests in mind. As a 38-year-old, I am much safer when I engage in sex with Lacy and within the swinger community than I was when I was young, in my 20s, and sexually active.

Lacy: One hundred percent.

Dan: If you are completely terrified of STDs, you probably cannot leave your house and do these types of things. But if you educate yourself, take proper precautions, and get tested, there are some levels of risk we are willing to accept.

Dr. Bawa: Gonorrhea and chlamydia can be treated, but herpes is forever.

Lacy: Yes, it is.

Dan: Herpes and HIV are among the diseases that are out there. All we can do is get tested ourselves, encourage our friends to get tested, and have honest conversations.

[15:30] New Partners vs. Familiar Partners

Dr. Bawa: Do swingers usually swing with someone new, or is it usually the same group or married couple?

Lacy: It depends on the couple. Some people prefer to swing with someone new every time so they do not develop an emotional attachment or worry about falling for someone. We prefer not to do that.

Lacy: That does not mean we have never simply hooked up with somebody. We would be lying if we said we had not. But we prefer to get to know people, become friends, and then swing with them. A lot of the people we swing with tend to be the same people. If we are going to a Valentine’s Day party, for example, we invite all our friends. Nine times out of 10, we will not swing with someone new; we will swing with the people we usually swing with.

Dan: For the most part, we have a group of friends we are comfortable with, and they tend to be the people we end up playing with. Occasionally, we meet new people. If the spark is there and it works, we go for it. If not, we always have our friends.

Lacy: Swinging looks different for everyone. This is simply our version of swinging. Some people prefer to hook up with random people every time, and that is okay.

[16:43] How Swingers Find Each Other

Dr. Bawa: How do swingers usually find each other?

Lacy: Swinger websites. Before the internet, there were magazines, newspaper ads, and the pineapple, which I know we will talk about later. Now we have websites that are very much like dating apps for swingers. You list whether you are bisexual or straight, what you are looking for, and couples can browse the site just as they would a traditional dating site.

Lacy: We also go to swinger parties where almost everyone there is a swinger. There are clubs, hotel takeovers where an entire hotel is bought out for a party, and swinger resorts throughout the United States and outside the country.

Dan: Social media has also become a big way to find people, although you have to be careful not to expose yourself by using platforms such as Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram.

[17:33] Keeping Their Marriage Sexually Exciting

Dr. Bawa: How do you keep your own relationship interesting and spicy?

Dan: Lacy and I are both very sexual and sexually active in our personal life. Honestly, swinging helps keep it that way. When we go to a party or an event and engage with other people, it gives us a high. We may ride that high for weeks or even months after the event.

Dan: We may be in bed together talking about things we did at the club or things we did during a weekend with another couple. We are very open with each other about our fantasies. In a previous monogamous relationship, I was ashamed of watching porn and ashamed of some of my fantasies. With Lacy, I am in a relationship where she supports, celebrates, and encourages those fantasies. Because of that, it keeps our relationship very sexy. We have sex daily or every other day, and that definitely keeps the spark alive.

[18:32] Swinging About Once a Month

Lacy: We only swing about once a month. If we did it multiple times a week, I think our regular sex life might lose something because swinging would encompass our entire sex drive.

Lacy: Because we space it out and live a normal everyday life except for the weekends when we slip away and have naughty fun, it keeps our relationship and sex life exciting. There is the buildup to the event, and then there is the aftermath and the coming down from that high. We can ride those waves.

[19:17] Staying Close Beyond Sex

Dr. Bawa: Given your lifestyle, how do you stay close as a couple beyond sex?

Dan: The interesting thing about Lacy and me is that we live together, work together, run our podcast together, and do almost everything together. We plan events and host swinger lifestyle events across the country. We are attached at the hip 24/7.

Dan: We also go on dates, take our kids on vacation, go to baseball games, walk on the beach, go out to dinner, drink wine, and do all the normal things couples do. People see us on social media and think our entire life revolves around swinging. It is a big part of our life now, but we are absolutely a normal everyday couple.

Lacy: We are very normal except that, about once a month, we sneak away for a naughty weekend of fun and then come back. Other than the podcast and the lifestyle events, our life is like anybody else’s.

[20:28] Privacy and Going Public

Dr. Bawa: You are very open about your swinger lifestyle. How do other people manage to keep it private?

Lacy: We were private for a long time and never intended to become public. We made a TikTok, but we did not understand that TikTok had the reach it did. Eleven million views later, everybody knew we were swingers.

Lacy: Before that, we maintained our privacy for years. We lived our everyday lives as normal Dan and Lacy, and every so often we went away for a weekend. We did have to create cover stories. We might say we were visiting someone in another state. When we went to a swinger resort in Jamaica, we told everyone we were going to the Sandals resort next door.

Lacy: I would say 80 percent or more of people in the lifestyle are very private. There are doctors, lawyers, senators, teachers, and other professionals who cannot be public, so most of the swinger lifestyle is extremely private.

[21:22] Professional and Family Consequences

Dan: Many people do not post face pictures on their profiles. Their photos are behind lock and key, and they have to unlock them for specific couples. Privacy is built into the community because of the stigma surrounding swinging.

Dan: People live in fear that, if they are found out, they could lose their jobs. They could face custody battles involving their children and former partners. Those concerns still exist within the community.

Dan: A big part of our platform is pushing back against that stigma. We want to change some of these attitudes because it is unfortunate that the community has to remain underground. If people choose to be private, we totally respect that. But they should not have to live in fear of being outed and facing serious consequences.

[22:27] Phones and Cameras at Events

Dr. Bawa: Are cameras and phones not allowed at these events?

Lacy: For the most part, they are not. Some clubs allow cameras in the club portion but not in the back or in a playroom. Overall, cameras and phones are a no-go in the swinger lifestyle.

Dan: If cameras are allowed, venues often have specific areas, such as a photo-booth section, where people can take pictures with friends. Swingers are protective of other people and very careful not to out anyone. If you are going to take a picture of somebody, you make sure you have their consent. Cameras are not openly filming or photographing people who do not want to be recorded.

Dan: Many clubs also have security. If you are seen recording people or taking pictures without permission, they will kick you out.

Lacy: I have been checking a message on my phone and had someone think, from the way I was holding it, that I might be recording. They told me to put my phone away. Privacy is very important to the venues because they do not want to be known as places that allow pictures and videos. Other swingers are also protective because nobody wants to be the person who got someone else outed.

[23:44] Cialis, Viagra, and Performance Anxiety

Dr. Bawa: How often do people in the lifestyle use Viagra or Cialis?

Lacy: Every day. All the time.

Dan: I would say probably at least 90 percent of the men in the lifestyle use Cialis or Viagra. In many cases, they do not use it in their personal lives. They use it for swinger parties, events, and encounters with other couples.

Dan: Performance anxiety is a major reason. You may be at a club drinking all night, and then you go to have group sex. People may be watching, and you may be engaging with a partner you do not know well. Performance anxiety is real. I have personally experienced it, so many men turn to ED medications in those situations.

[24:28] Medical Alternatives at Bawa Medical

Dr. Bawa: It is unfortunate because there are treatments available. At my practice, Bawa Medical, I offer BawaWave®, my proprietary shockwave protocol; the BawaShot® for men and women; and even BawaBig®, my penis-enlargement procedure. There is so much that can be done. Many people do not know these options exist, and some are taking medications that can potentially be dangerous. I am also assuming that the medication people take is not always prescribed to them.

Dan: That is safe to say. Some men do not realize they are going to have performance-anxiety issues until they are in the situation. Then it is common for another man to say, ‘Just take this. It will be all right. Take this pill, and we will try again in 20 minutes.’

Dan: We have met men in the lifestyle who have caused permanent damage by taking medications improperly. We are strong advocates for going to your doctor, having a conversation, and getting your own medication prescribed rather than sharing medication with other people.

Dan: I also do not think many people know about the kinds of treatment you offer. It is not widely discussed. It is exciting that we know you, are having these conversations, and are getting this information out there.

[25:53] Risks of Sharing ED Medication

Dr. Bawa: I am trying to spread the word about wellness and not relying on the little blue pill through TikTok, the podcast, YouTube, and my other social media channels. I think I am starting to make inroads.

Dan: We met one man at a swinger club who had some type of PRP therapy done, and he was raving about it. He kept saying, ‘You have to look into this. You have to check this out.’ That led us to research it. Eventually, we were contacted by you, and we thought, ‘This is exactly what he was talking about.’

Dan: I think swingers would be very interested in that alternative method. Most of them simply do not know about it.

Dr. Bawa: The way I do it is unique and really a game changer. I am glad people now have a safer option. Someone may take Viagra recreationally without realizing they have contraindications or reasons they should not take it. Their blood pressure could plummet. These are real concerns.

Dan: Absolutely. That is why we advocate consulting your doctor and not simply giving somebody medication. People may be trying to help a friend who is struggling, but if something terrible happened, it would be a very bad situation.

Dan: Talking with your doctor and looking into alternatives is especially important for people who cannot take those medications because of heart issues or other conditions. It is good to know alternatives exist.

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely.

[27:41] How Their Families Reacted

Dr. Bawa: How do your families feel about your lifestyle, given how public you are?

Lacy: We did not tell any of our family members. They all found out either through TikTok or because somebody else told them. They were shocked at first. My family asked, ‘Did Dan make you do this? Did Dan talk you into this?’ The man always gets blamed for everything.

Lacy: I had to explain that I was in the lifestyle before I met him. It was definitely a shock for my family because I was the sweet Southern girl they thought was living this normal life. They had no idea that, behind closed doors, I was a freaky woman.

Lacy: They have come around. It took a few weeks for them to realize that I was still the same person. I am lucky that my parents are loving, open, and not judgmental. They love me for who I am. My mom comes over and helps us make merchandise and do whatever we need so we can travel and throw parties. I am fortunate that my family loves and accepts me.

[28:44] Talking to Their Children

Dan: We also have three children between us. They now know we are swingers and understand the platform we have. It was nerve-racking to have that conversation with them. My oldest is 18 and our youngest is 13, so that is the age range.

Dan: That generation is much more open to different relationship styles and very supportive of the LGBTQ+ community. We were nervous about what they would say. They responded, ‘Mom and Dad, we do not care what you do. How did you get that many followers on TikTok?’

Dan: That was all they cared about. They were interested that people were buying our T-shirts and following us on TikTok. They are not interested in how we engage in sex. It is awkward and embarrassing for them, but I think, in many ways, they respect us for being advocates and speaking out for the community.

[29:44] Misconceptions About Swinging

Dr. Bawa: What do you think the biggest misconceptions about swinging are?

Lacy: People think we hook up with everyone. They think it is a free-for-all and that, if someone wants to have sex with us, we are automatically willing. That is not the case. We are very picky and respectful of ourselves and our bodies. We do not simply jump into bed with anyone.

Dan: That is absolutely the biggest misconception. People think that if they go to a swinger club or event, they are somehow obligated to engage in sex or orgies with random people, whether or not they want to. I can assure anyone listening that it does not work that way.

[30:25] Consent and Choice

Dan: Non-monogamy is a lot like monogamy in this respect. You get to court your partners and choose. You have conversations about consent and boundaries. You say what you are comfortable doing and what you are not comfortable doing.

Dan: The vast majority of couples we have met are very respectful and understanding of those boundaries. It is an open community where you can talk about your desires and fantasies. Once you are comfortable, you can experience them. Nobody is going to force you to do anything you are not comfortable with.

Dr. Bawa: That is great, because consent is important.

Lacy: Very important.

Dan: It is extremely important.

[31:03] The Upside-Down Pineapple

Dr. Bawa: Tell me about the upside-down pineapple.

Dan: There is a lot of discussion about the pineapple. One of our first viral videos showed us putting an upside-down pineapple on our car. It sparked outrage across the internet. People said, ‘Do not take our pineapple. Do not ruin it.’ Other communities use the pineapple. It is used in the infertility community, in hospitality, and in many beach towns.

Lacy: People told us swingers could not steal their pineapple and that we had ruined it for them.

Dan: Our response was always, ‘It is okay. We like to share.’

[31:38] Why Swingers Use the Pineapple

Dan: The myth is that, before the internet, if you were grocery shopping and wanted to meet other swingers, you would put a pineapple upside down in your cart and other swingers would find you. There may be a little truth to that, but the pineapple is primarily a hospitality symbol.

Dan: Swingers use it because sharing your wife with someone could be described as one of the most hospitable things you can do. Obviously, there has to be consent and a connection. Turning the pineapple upside down means you are actively seeking connections with other people.

[32:29] Pineapple Myths and Misunderstandings

Lacy: We get questions from people who say, ‘I put my pineapple upside down in my cart at Walmart, and nobody spoke to me.’ They are serious, and I have to laugh. It is 2023. We are not putting a pineapple upside down in a shopping cart to meet people. We may do it for a funny TikTok, but we find people at swinger clubs, on swinger vacations, and through swinger websites.

Lacy: People also ask, ‘I met a woman wearing a pineapple shirt. Do you think she is a swinger?’ I do not know, and I would never assume.

Dan: Swingers do tend to decorate their homes with pineapples, but many other people simply see it as a hospitality or beach-town symbol. You do not want to make assumptions.

Lacy: If the pineapple is upside down, that is a stronger clue. I do not think many non-swingers are intentionally flipping pineapples upside down.

[33:44] Dr. Bawa’s Pineapple TikTok

Dr. Bawa: I posted a TikTok on my Dr. Sex Fairy account about pineapple and how it can make semen taste different. I was holding a pineapple the right way, and people started commenting, ‘Why do you not flip it over?’ I could not understand what they were talking about. Then I Googled it and discovered the meaning. I had inadvertently made quite a statement, had I not?

Lacy: Yes. Imagine if you had happened to hold it upside down without knowing and posted that TikTok. You would have had an entire community reaching out to you.

Dr. Bawa: I might do that to promote this podcast episode.

Dan: You should.

Lacy: Not all swingers use the upside-down pineapple. It can be regional. Some swingers say they have never heard of it, while others love it and use it constantly.

Dan: There are other symbols, including flamingos, garden gnomes, black rings, and white rocks. There is a whole list of possible secret swinger symbols.

Lacy: People become very concerned about whether a person with a particular symbol is a swinger. I tell them, ‘Let people live their lives. Do not worry about it. Do not ask them. Just let them live.’

[35:07] Colored Loofahs and The Villages

Dan: If you want to go down another rabbit hole, Google the colored loofahs and The Villages in Florida.

Dr. Bawa: I have seen a few viral TikToks about that.

Lacy: The Villages is near you. It is a retirement community where people drive golf carts. They put colored loofahs on the antennas of their golf carts, and each color supposedly represents what they are interested in—full swap, bisexuality, heterosexual play, kink, and other preferences.

Dan: There is apparently a different-colored loofah for everything and a large swinger community in The Villages.

Dr. Bawa: I did not know that. See the things you learn every day.

Dan: You may have to visit The Villages.

Dr. Bawa: I might. I should.

[36:02] Sexual Wellness Options for Swingers

Dr. Bawa: I should come to some of your events to talk about the medical options available to swingers. Many people who find me online travel to me, but even those who cannot travel can order my supplements.

Dr. Bawa: Many of my patients were taking junk they bought on Amazon or in triple-X sex stores. I would look at the bottles and could not figure out what was in them. I tried to find somebody to talk to, and there was nobody. So I started my own line of U.S.-made supplements here in Florida.

Dr. Bawa: We have a testosterone booster, which almost every man needs. We have a nitric oxide booster, which nearly everyone—male and female—needs because it supports better blood flow. That can mean better erections for men or a better-lubricated, better-functioning vagina for women. Our third supplement supports libido and general sexual health for both men and women. There are many good medical and non-medical alternatives to Viagra.

Dan: You are right. Using our platform and our voice to get information about alternatives out there is important. So many people do not want to talk about these subjects. The more openly we can have conversations, share information, and put good information into the community, the better it is for our community and for sex as a whole.

Dr. Bawa: I agree. Your podcast and mine are among the top podcasts in the world, and clearly there is a need for this information. People are tuning in.

Dan: We are glad they are listening, and we look forward to continuing these conversations long into the future.

[37:56] How to Find The Swing Nation

Dr. Bawa: How can people find you?

Dan: People can search for The Swing Nation anywhere they listen to podcasts. All of our social media links and other information are available at theswingnation.net.

Dr. Bawa: Thank you, Dan and Lacy. This has been a great conversation. I am sure people have really enjoyed listening to you both.

Dan: Thank you, Dr. Bawa.

Lacy: Thank you.

[38:22] Closing Thoughts

Dr. Bawa: As I said earlier, different strokes for different folks. My podcast is all about taking the shame out of sex and sexuality and promoting wellness and medical treatments that are game changers for many. I hope you found this episode interesting and informative and that you can better accept your own choices, whatever they may be. Until next time.