Ep. 4 - The State of the Date

[00:09] Introduction: The State of the Date

Dr. Bawa: Welcome to another episode of Dr. Sex Fairy. I'm Dr. Kanwal Bawa, and I am here to transform your life. Today is a very interesting day. We have the best podcast ever lined up for you. Today we are calling our podcast The State of the Date. We have with us the Podfather himself, Brian Howie, the man, the myth, the legend behind the number one dating and relationship podcast in the world, The Great Love Debate. Hi, Brian. I am so happy to have you.

Brian Howie: I should just bring you around to introduce me to people like that. It's the State of the Date, because before we get to sex, usually there should be a date. Or two. Sometimes. Unless you're in Amsterdam. Well, I don't know. Is that a date? A date is spending time together. And exchanging information. So I suppose that's a date. Good idea. People out there, ask somebody out on an Amsterdam date.

Dr. Bawa: So I was looking at a very interesting statistic. It said that 47% of all Americans say dating is harder today than it was ten years ago.

[01:37] Why Dating Feels Harder

Brian Howie: Yes and no. If you asked people ten years ago, I'm sure they would have said the same thing. It's a perpetual cycle of misery and pessimism. A lot has changed in the last ten years, though. There are basically five things that have been thrown into the dating pot that either didn't exist ten years ago or have changed in how they affect dating. The biggest factor of the last ten or fifteen years is the blurring and shifting of traditional gender roles when it comes to dating.

Brian Howie: The rise of the independent woman. Women have ramped up their independent, 'I don't need a man' energy. If anything, the men have become more pussified. Is that a word? So the women have gotten a little harder, the men have gotten a little softer, and this disconnect has thrown the balance off. Where it used to be that the boys knew what to do and the girls knew what to do, now it's all blended together. A lot of men who were already hesitant are even more hesitant to make a move.

Brian Howie: For generations, men were essentially shooting at a 10-foot basket, to use a basketball metaphor, to get into your world. Now we're shooting at a 12-foot basket because you need us less. Guys have to step up and learn how to shoot at a 12-foot basket. Technology filled the gap - dating apps and social media. Back in the 1950s, we had to go up to you, ask you to dance, and then dance with you before we could even talk to you. Now people hide behind Facebook pages and dating profiles before they interact.

Brian Howie: It has taken away a lot of spontaneous face-to-face interaction. I always say the best dating site is Earth. People think dating is something they need to do online, for safety reasons, before moving offline. That's a factor where people think it's harder because they don't really know how to use those tools properly. Back in the 1930s, people were probably complaining about something called the telephone. Someone was probably like, 'I can't believe that guy called me.'

[04:54] Politics, Me Too, and the Modern Dating Pool

Brian Howie: Politics are a factor in dating in a way they weren't ten years ago. Ten years ago, you might have dated somebody or been married to them for five years without ever really knowing how they voted. Now people want to know where you stand before the appetizer comes. It's on dating sites. That throws a contentious bit of animosity into what shouldn't necessarily be there. I say this all the time. I could line up a thousand women who voted for Hillary Clinton and the guys who say that would go out with every single one of them.

Brian Howie: Right. People believe they wouldn't date them, but ten years ago you wouldn't even ask these things. Another thing that came up in the last ten years, and especially the last few years, was the Me Too movement. It took dating, or at least flirtation, out of the workplace. You're taking away where people spend a huge percentage of their waking hours during the week, and suddenly that pool is off limits. That absolutely makes it harder. These are people you spend most of your awake time with, and now not only can you not really ask them out, you might get fired.

Brian Howie: It used to be that you might get rejected; now in a lot of companies, you just can't do it. And then, of course, locking us down for two years took away bars, restaurants, social time, and face-to-face interaction. Those are factors. There are several elements that have made it more difficult, or at least made people believe it's more difficult. But you only need one. And that one is still there. People like to have excuses and blame the city or the place. It's almost never that you haven't met the right person; it's that you haven't been the right person.

Brian Howie: Do the work, make the changes, and you'll be just fine. Or you're not ready to be the right person. You're not grown up enough, you're not over your last relationship - there are a hundred factors you are personally responsible for in the outcome of your dating fate. People want to look outward instead of inward.

[08:00] Stop Looking for Your 'Type'

Brian Howie: Three words you have to get rid of are 'not my type.' If you're over 30 and still single, you have no type. Your type is not working out for you. I put myself in that category too. Your answers almost always lie somewhere outside your comfort zone. We're so used to believing we like this because we've dated people like this. Well, none of those people worked out. Maybe you should sit across from somebody you believe is not your type and see where it can go.

Brian Howie: Somebody says, 'I like blondes, I like tall men, I like this, I like that.' Maybe you don't. We travel all over the world with The Great Love Debate. Some places are easier than others, but most of the time the answers are in your control.

[09:13] Dating Apps and the Swipe Mentality

Dr. Bawa: Do you think online dating has caused more of the swipe, next-next mentality, where we're not taking the people in front of us as seriously?

Brian Howie: People say that, but we used to walk around a bar 50 times. That was swiping until you found somebody you liked. There has always been a little bit of bigger-better-deal, on to the next. I think the bigger issue is fear-based dating now. I've always said women look for red flags and men look for green lights. I understand women have to be cautious, but you shouldn't go on a first date with the idea that you need to be able to get out of there in 45 seconds. We didn't used to date that way.

Dr. Bawa: I find it very disconcerting when people only ever want to meet for a drink. Dinner is almost a lost concept.

Brian Howie: Right, because people don't want to put in the time. They don't want to work through 45 seconds of awkwardness, which we all have initially. Hopefully sex isn't always great the first time either, because somebody is nervous, it's awkward, or you have to get into the rhythm of what you like and don't like. Same thing with meeting for a drink or an ice cream. Maybe the first meeting wasn't perfect because of the setting or because you're carrying work stress. Give people another chance or a longer audition, tryout, interview - whatever you want to call it.

Brian Howie: We're so quick to ask, 'Who else is on my phone?' Get your head out of your apps and look around. In any normal city, if you leave your house, go to work, go to yoga, walk the dog, or go to the store, you're within ten yards of a thousand people of the opposite sex every day. You're never going to get to a thousand people in a day by swiping. That doesn't mean you should rule online dating out. You have to diversify your dating portfolio.

Brian Howie: Look online, look offline, and always be open to opportunities. I started The Great Love Debate because I wrote a semi-satirical book called How to Find Love in 60 Seconds. It's about those 60-second windows of opportunity where magic can happen. It can be a hello, an encounter, or somebody asking if you'd like a dessert menu. We've eliminated that. We walk around with blinders on: don't talk to me, don't look at me, find me online. That's a bad way to date.

Dr. Bawa: You have so many Brianisms. I need to start writing them down. 'Get your head out of your apps.'

Brian Howie: I believe that. We walk around with our heads in our phones. We used to notice people around us, and people need to start noticing each other again.

[13:38] Is Dating Easier for Successful Men Than Successful Women?

Dr. Bawa: Do you think it's easier for successful men to date than it is for successful women to date? I'm 43. I'm a doctor, I'm single, and pretty smart.

Brian Howie: Okay, you're 43. You don't realistically want to go out with a 25-year-old guy. And you probably don't want to go out with a 55-year-old guy. So your window of people who connect with you emotionally and lifestyle-wise is smaller. For a successful 45-year-old man, his pool might be 25 to 60. It's much bigger. One factor is whether he wants to have children. If he's 45 and wants three kids, that changes the pool.

Dr. Bawa: It's hard for me because so many men don't know how to process my success. It's not that I have an ego problem. I dated one guy several years ago and finally had him come over to the house and pick me up. He brought me flowers, so I thought this was going well. He walked in, looked at my house, threw his hands up, and said, 'I can't afford this.' I looked at him and said, 'Clearly, I'm doing just fine on my own.' But it got him.

Brian Howie: Because he needs to feel needed. If you have everything taken care of, that is the intimidation factor. It's not necessarily the money or the things; it's that he thinks there's nothing he can bring into your world to enhance it. That's male insecurity, and he has to figure out there are other things he can bring. Successful women need to find out what they do need. Some women say it's about want, not need. Explain the difference between want and need. I want world peace.

Brian Howie: I need tater tots. Which one sounds more passionate? You need to know the roadmap of things you need and communicate that in a positive, encouraging way. We need the pat on the nose just as often, or more often, than the smack on the nose. I used to do seminars for women and ask what makes them happy. The list of what made them unhappy was immediately accessible. The happy list took more thought. If you don't know what you need, he's not going to know.

Brian Howie: A little bit of the burden for the woman is to paint a path, a roadmap to how he can fit into her successful world. Nobody has everything and nobody's life is complete. There is a way for him to feel fantastic and confident about his place in your life. A lot of successful women are college educated, and there's a disparity between the number of college-educated women and men. Some women think they need degree equality and won't consider what my friend, author Jon Birger, calls mixed-collar relationships. They'll say they aren't intellectual equals because he doesn't have the same piece of paper.

Dr. Bawa: My most dysfunctional dating relationship was with another doctor. He was insane.

Brian Howie: Exactly. A man rarely asks where she went to school. That doesn't tell me you're smart. It doesn't tell me anything. You could be nuts. I want to find out about you. Too often we're looking at this list of things we need and want and saying, 'I need my equal on this level.' Even if you made a list of a hundred things, you're still leaving ten thousand things out. We have to get rid of the word no and find out what we really do like.

Brian Howie: You're the Sex Fairy here. A lot of people do that in the bedroom - they go to unfamiliar or adventurous places to find new pleasure. I don't know why we don't do that with people while our clothes are on.

[19:53] Sex on the First Date

Dr. Bawa: Since you brought sex up, sex on a first date is still a controversial issue. What are your thoughts about it?

Brian Howie: If you surveyed a thousand happy couples and asked when they first had sex, the number one answer is the first date, number two is the second date, number three is the third date, and it goes down from there. I'm not saying sex on the first date automatically leads to happiness. It means those people felt something, rode that wave, had chemistry, didn't play games, and went there. You can wait until you believe you're in a committed, monogamous relationship, but women admit to me all the time that if the sex is terrible, they're out of there.

Brian Howie: Suddenly they're not so committed. I don't think you're in a committed relationship until you have sex. You need to know. Do it if you want, don't do it if you don't. It isn't a referendum on anything, nor should it be a reward for anything. You do it when you want to do it, and you have to be able to handle that it might not mean the same thing to the other person.

Dr. Bawa: And withholding sex is often an issue in relationships overall because it's seen too much as a punishment or a reward, or a favor.

Brian Howie: Birthdays and anniversaries. It shouldn't be that. Sex should have its own life. People have hard and fast rules like wait three dates or 30 days. Every circumstance is different. I know someone who says she always has sex with them a second time so she can say she never had a one-night stand. Whatever you have to do to feel good about yourself. A lot of women will have sex with a guy if they don't really like him.

Dr. Bawa: Why do you think that's the case?

Brian Howie: Because then they don't care if they don't hear from him. They just want the sex. If they like him, they may hold back because if they have sex and they like him, they can get hurt. Men are afraid of being rejected and women are afraid of being hurt. That drives a lot of our behavior.

Dr. Bawa: That's very well said and very true.

[22:46] What Is the State of the Date?

Brian Howie: People ask me what the state of the date actually is. We've had millions of people listen to the podcast and done our live show all over the world. It pretty much comes down to this: women want men to try harder, and men want women to make it easier. That's it. If we took a half-step back toward each other again, we'd probably be fine. It doesn't have to be way easier and he doesn't have to try way harder. We're in this weird standoff now.

Dr. Bawa: That's true. Back in India when I was growing up, it wasn't quite what it is here in the U.S. My suitors, if I may call them that, had to ask my father for permission. Dating and sex go hand in hand. It's so tricky sometimes, and it doesn't really need to be.

Brian Howie: It doesn't need to be. We've lost the ability to approach somebody at Whole Foods or Starbucks. People are like, 'Why are you talking to me?'

Dr. Bawa: People want to be left alone. And like you talked about Me Too, it's harder for men, but it's also harder for women. It's awkward now. You don't know what you can and can't say. People don't have a sense of humor anymore. You're afraid of offending everyone and this cancel culture.

[25:10] Flirtation, Technology, and the Future of Dating

Brian Howie: I've been in Hollywood for most of the last 20 years. I know a lot of women, a lot of actresses, who say they hate the way it is now. They felt their sexuality and flirtation were tools they could use if they wanted to. I'm not saying everybody feels that way, but there are women who do. The men can feel that women aren't all on the same page, so they're taking a step back. They're saying, 'When you figure out what we're supposed to do, let us know.' There's a concern that you're going to scare off the good guys too.

Brian Howie: And then there's this coming storm. Imagine a kid who's 15 now. He sees a pretty girl, takes a picture of her, goes home, uploads the picture, puts on a helmet, and a virtual version of her appears, talks to him, calls him by his name, and gives him a reasonably satisfying experience. That kid may never ask out a girl in real life. This combination of video games and porn is coming. You can tell him it's not as good, but he doesn't know because he's never had the real thing.

Brian Howie: It didn't cost him money, nobody broke his heart, and it was stimulating enough. Eventually that technology will tap into brain waves and become even more immersive. What do we do about that?

Dr. Bawa: It's taking the human element out of it even more. I feel that I am relatively successful, but I want a traditional relationship in the sense that I want a man who wants to protect me, who wants to be there for me, who wants to open the door for me. I want those things, and I see them less and less.

Brian Howie: It's not that chivalry is dead; men don't know how to use it. If you hold the door for some women, they react like, 'Do you think I'm weak?' In certain cities it's worse. Or, 'Why are you paying for this? Do you think I can't pay for it?' So some guys withdraw. On the other side, a lot of women have heard terrible stories and say, 'These men do suck. I don't need that either,' and they drop out. But I'm going to sell a little hope.

Brian Howie: The people who are dating now and going into 2022 are more curious, more introspective, more vulnerable, and doing more work. The last two years forced people to experience what it was like to sit home with Netflix, the dog, yoga, and wine and not need anybody. A lot of people discovered they did miss dating. They missed the excitement, nervousness, hugs, sex, and physical touch. Being at a bar again, being in a bed with somebody else again. People missed real-life interaction. It's not as good on Zoom. It's good face to face. People realized they like that energy and that feeling of being around other people.

[31:30] Brian's Memorable Sex-Shop First Date

Dr. Bawa: You once asked me what my best or worst dating experience was. So now you tell me.

Brian Howie: I'll give you one that fits your show. I asked out a very successful woman in Las Vegas. I had to meet her at her office because she was a big marketing executive. I went to pick her up for dinner, and she said, 'I know you're going to think I'm weird, but we have to make a stop before dinner.' I asked where we were going. She said, 'We have to go to a sex shop.' Part of me was like, whoa, and part of me was like, freaky.

Brian Howie: She said, 'It's not what you think.' Her best friend's husband was in town for a bachelor party, and she wanted to get a bunch of blow-up dolls and sex toys and put them in his hotel room as a joke. So we went to the sex shop together. She was cool but embarrassed. It broke down a lot of walls for the date. She was asking, 'Do you think this is the right size? Do you think he'd like this?' By the time we got to dinner, talking about normal things was very relaxing.

Brian Howie: It was a great date. I'm still friends with her to this day, and she still asks if I tell people about the woman who made me go to the sex store before dinner. It was a great date because it was unusual. Exactly. It shook both of us out of our normal modes. She was in work mode and I was in date mode, and at six o'clock while it was still light out we had to go to this freaky sex store in Las Vegas. It was super fun.

[34:01] Closing

Dr. Bawa: Well, a good conversation this has been, Brian.

Brian Howie: See? It's not that hard. People should be able to just talk about sex stores and stuff. Blow-up dolls.

Dr. Bawa: With Dr. Sex Fairy, we have to sprinkle a little fairy dust, and here we are talking about blow-up dolls, sex, dating, love, Me Too, all of those things. Trump and Hillary. You and I are out of control. So, Brian, tell our listeners where they can find you.

Brian Howie: You can go to greatlovedebate.com. You can see our live tour schedule and links to our podcast. You can find it on all the platforms. If you have a question or a comment, or you don't like something we said about the current dating landscape, the State of the Date, shoot me an email at greatlovedebate@gmail.com.

[34:56] Recorded Outro

Dr. Bawa: I hope you enjoyed the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast today. I would love to continue this conversation with you. If you would like my top three secrets for amazing sex, send me an email at askme@drsexfairy.com and I will share them with you. Don't forget to follow this podcast and leave me a five-star review. Until next time.