Ep. 29 - Porn Addiction: Fact or Fiction?

[00:12] Introduction: Porn Addiction by the Numbers

Dr. Bawa: Welcome back to the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. I am Dr. Kanwal Bawa, and as always, I am here to transform your life. Today I am going to address the very controversial topic of porn addiction. How many people are actually watching porn though? Let's talk about the numbers. About 200,000 Americans are classified as porn addicts. Forty million Americans regularly visit porn sites. One-third of porn viewers are women. Every second, 28,258 users are watching pornography on the Internet. Fifty-six percent of divorce cases involve one party having an obsessive interest in pornography. I have brought in an expert today to discuss this topic with me. I am joined by my friend, Dr. Caleb Jacobson, today. Dr. Jacobson is an internationally recognized clinical psychologist, sex therapist, and biblical scholar. He chairs the AASECT special interest group on sexuality and religion and is the host of the very popular sex therapy podcast. Welcome, sir.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Dr. Bawa, it's so good to be here with you. How are you?

Dr. Bawa: I am delighted to have you back.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: It's all my pleasure, really. I'm excited.

Dr. Bawa: So lots of interesting questions to ask you today. This is a very controversial topic.

[01:59] Why Porn Addiction Feels So Common

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: It's very controversial, and I cannot even begin to tell you the number of people who ask questions concerning sex and porn addiction. No matter where I go, no matter where in the world I travel, no matter where I lecture, someone is always going to ask me if I think that they have an addiction.

Dr. Bawa: Isn't that something? Now, the idea of sex or porn addiction is really common in the media and even among some therapists. Can you tell me why it's such a big deal?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Well, the idea of an addiction is kind of popular, anyways, right? Like we're addicted to sugar, we're addicted to alcohol. Like we like to blame a lot of things as being addictive, right? Because then we can say, ah, so the problem is not really mine. The problem is that I have an addiction. I have no, there's nothing that I can do about it. I think that's one reason. Another reason is I think some people simply like something to, they like to blame something, right? So often when the issue of porn addiction, for example, comes up in therapy, it's typically the person's partner who's saying, ah, my partner has a porn addiction.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: The partner had no idea they had a porn addiction until they until they were just told, right? Like they had no idea they had a porn addiction until they were just informed. So a lot of it I think is cultural. A lot of it I think has to do with shame and guilt surrounding sex. And especially when we talk about porn, because we're not just talking about viewing porn. People typically don't just watch porn, they watch porn and masturbate. And I think the two are very connected in the way that it's perceived and the way that it is thought of as being an addiction.

[03:46] Is Porn Addiction a Myth?

Dr. Bawa: Why do you consider sex or porn addiction to be a myth?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So, like I said, a lot of times when we're talking about porn addiction, we are talking about porn and masturbating. Okay. And so often what we find is that people feel guilty. They feel guilty about having sex, or they feel guilty about the type of sex they're having, or they feel guilty about masturbating. Okay. And I've worked with a lot of clients and who have come and said, you know, I have an addiction to porn and masturbation. And I said, what about when you masturbate without the porn? And there's still these feelings of guilt. So but that's not why I think it's a myth.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: The number one reason why I think it's a myth is because when we use an addiction model to treat sex or porn, it does not work. These models do not work clinically. Um, and so obviously it has to be something other than an addiction that is taking place. It's much easier to say it's a porn addiction, right? Like it's much easier to say, oh, my partner has a porn addiction than to have a serious discussion between the couple of, well, what's missing in this relationship? What needs of mine are not being met? It's much easier to blame the porn than to look inwardly. And I so I very much try to tell individuals and couples to stay away from this idea of porn addiction. Additionally, you know, sex and our sex drive is something that's innate, it's natural, it's biological. Okay. So that in and of itself cannot be an addiction.

[05:26] Shame, Relationships and Self-Esteem

Dr. Bawa: Agreed. And I think very often the partner is taking it as an affront. They take it personally as if there's something wrong with them. Where, you know, I have done episodes before talking about masturbation, and I've talked about how it's natural, how in many ways it's even healthy that a man ejaculates often because they have lower rates of prostate cancer, believe it or not, when they ejaculate more often and do so regularly. And I feel that there's so much guilt associated with both porn and with masturbation. And everybody's taking everything too personally. I think sometimes it's just the idea of stress release, or you know, you just want that moment, and then people are feeling victimized because they're being told they're addicted to it.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So often what I find when actually having serious conversations with couples is that the female partner, the woman is often she feels belittled in the fact of, you know, my partner is attracted to this. He's not attracted to me. I could never look like the woman on the screen. I could never do the things that she does. So I'll never be able to fulfill my partner's needs. So it really becomes a self-esteem issue for a lot of women. And a lot of women do struggle with that. Now, there are plenty of women who do watch porn and enjoy watching porn, but for some women, it really does impact their self-esteem and sense of self-worth. There's also elements of religious shame that comes into this as well, since it is often forbidden or taboo based upon the person's religion. And that is something that is deep-seated in a lot of people as well.

[07:06] Religion, Culture and Porn Consumption

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. And some religions are more sex positive than others. And interestingly enough, Judaism is very sex positive.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Very true. Judaism is very sex positive, and although I would say that in very orthodox circles, you it is still forbidden for men to look at porn. So this issue is it does have a wide-sweeping effect across different religions and culturally, like, right? Like even if you think culturally, like the idea of porn is still very taboo.

Dr. Bawa: So do you think Americans are the biggest consumers of pornography worldwide? I mean, I'm not holding you to a statistic.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I cannot think of a statistic, but I would assume Americans are among the biggest consumers, though that could be per capita or based on the size of the population. I also know that porn is very big in China and Japan as well. There are huge porn markets there. But I would say that in the U.S. there is a lot of porn consumption, and there is also a lot of porn denial.

[08:19] Urges, Masturbation and Sexual Dysfunction

Dr. Bawa: Yes, I agree. I agree. So if sex addiction is a myth, then why do some people feel overwhelmed by their urges and desires?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So often what we are talking about is someone who comes complaining of a either a sexual dysfunction or a relationship issue that they have chosen to blame porn for. So I'll start with an individual. So say a guy comes and he's like, Look, Doc, I'm masturbating two or three times a day. Or it sometimes it's really funny because people who come and say they have a porn addiction or masturbation addiction, whatever it is. I said, So how how often are you masturbating? Like once every two days. Like you know, this is you know, and and really wherever I go, I always have students come and ask, Well, am I masturbating too much? That's the question.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: And I always tell them, you know, the fact that you can go to school and you can be here at my lecture probably means you're okay. There's not a problem. Like if you're able to handle life and handle your social life and your school life and work, masturbate as often as you want to. Um, but sometimes guys come and they might have a problem. They might say, Listen, I'm unable to ejaculate when I am having intercourse with my female or male partner, okay? In which case, there are very simple techniques that they can do to overcome this. I often say that it's not the porn that's causing the problem with ejaculation.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: A lot of it is they're masturbating so much that they're using a tighter and tighter grip to where they're desensitizing their penis. And a vagina is never going to be as tight as your hand is. It's just, it's just not. Like anatomically, it's not. So I often tell them, you know, use a sex toy, use lots of lube. If you're going to use your hand, use a very loose grip. Um, there could be an issue when it comes to partners. Uh, the two main issues would be there could be a desire discrepancy in that the man's fantasies may not live up to his sexual reality. I'm not necessarily talking about the partner.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: He could still be very attracted to his partner. I'm saying the type of sex he is watching could be the type of sex he wishes he was having. And he doesn't feel comfortable expressing that to his partner. So when they're in the bedroom, they're just having missionary sex position or whatever position they constantly do over and over again. And it has no excitement for him anymore. Okay. So he could have trouble with erectile issues then or ejaculatory issues then. And so those, those are typically the two biggest problems, right? So they come, they have these, they have these issues, and they're like, oh my goodness, something's wrong with me. It's an addiction.

[11:14] The “Death Grip,” Technique and ED

Dr. Bawa: I find that very often I have patients come into my office and they talk about the same thing that you mentioned, how they think that masturbation is causing them to have erectile dysfunction. Where in reality it's that they're masturbating in the same exact position with a death grip.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Right.

Dr. Bawa: And I have spoken about this before, I think even on this podcast, because it's not that masturbation or porn is causing ED. I think very often it's just the technique and that same death grip every single time that does some of this.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: This is why I am such a big advocate for sex toys. And first of all, I think they're fun. Secondly, I think they're very helpful for a lot of sexual dysfunctions, as well as lube. I always say the wetter the better, right? Like lubricant is so good for so many reasons.

[12:06] How Much Masturbation Is Too Much?

Dr. Bawa: I love that, my friend. Another thing that you said that I really found interesting is that you talked about the frequency of masturbation and people thinking that they're masturbating too much, they have a problem, yet they're functioning well in society. And I did a video on TikTok. You know, I have that really popular TikTok account, Dr. Sex Fairy. And I have started doing a series there called masturbation myths. And one of them is exactly that. How much is too much? And I say, if you're able to function well in society, I guess it's not too much.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Yeah, I mean, that is that is always the question. Everybody is always worried that they're watching too much porn and masturbating too much, right? And it's really kind of silly because, as you've already mentioned, there's so many benefits to masturbation. And I think it's very sad that some people are hesitant to masturbate because they're afraid it's going to give me ED or it's going to give me delayed ejaculation. I'm not going to be able to ejaculate with a partner. And that's really sad when you also mentioned the importance of changing positions. Well, you didn't quite say it, but you said everybody.

Dr. Bawa: Different technique, but I agree with different positions, yes.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I mean, this I think this is very helpful because I've seen so many people, you know, they're like, I can only orgasm if I cross my legs or, you know, whatever the case, whatever the case may be. They're hung up on this. And a lot of times these positions they cannot do in partner sex, like because there's another person there. It makes it very difficult. So I encourage people to be more expressive and to not focus so much on the orgasm as in the pleasure sensations that they're feeling during masturbation or during sex. And when they can focus on that, they can allow their body to relax a little bit. Because as soon as the, especially when the muscles are contracted in in the upper thighs and in the pelvic region, one, you're restricting blood flow. This is problematic. And then the second problem is you are you're making it very difficult for yourself to have any type of orgasm.

[14:18] Sex Addiction vs. Compulsive Sexual Behavior

Dr. Bawa: Now we've talked about how porn addiction is more of a misnomer than anything. What are your thoughts about sex addiction?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Same thing. I think it's I think that typically when people say they have a sex addiction, and let me say, and I'm gonna preface this. I'm not saying that there is not a problem. If you say you have a sex addiction, I'm not telling you, no, you're wrong. There's no such thing as a sex addiction. That is not the same as me saying you have no problem at all. Okay. So normally when they have a sex addiction, the most common reason is because they have guilt and shame around sex. That's the most common issue. Um, the second thing that I find when it comes to a person who feels this way is, and this is very rare. This is very rare, is that they have an out-of-control sexual behavior. So, or a sexual compulsion, if you will. So it's kind of the similar if I'm dealing with someone who has OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, who has to continuously do something, right? Like, like whether it's turning on and off the light switch or washing their hands over and over again.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Like there's a compulsion they cannot stop. But I'm telling you that this is so extremely rare that in the last four years, I can maybe think of one client who has had any type of compulsion. And that compulsion was towards masturbation. And a lot of times they didn't even realize when they were masturbating. So this isn't the same as someone sitting down, putting on porn, which you have to type into Google, right? And then pulling up porn. Like they would literally not even recognize that they would be on the bus masturbating. So I would say that people who have these issues, it's not an addiction, it's more of a compulsive sexual behavior or an out-of-control sexual behavior.

[16:10] Celebrities and the Addiction Model

Dr. Bawa: There are many celebrities who go to rehab for sex addiction. I find that very interesting. David Duchovny is somebody who's been mentioned in the media to have had this. Tiger Woods, of course, he's had quite the life. Rob Lowe, Pamela Anderson, Lindsay Lohan, Russell Brand, I mean, the list is endless.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: There's a lot of money in the addiction business, right?

Dr. Bawa: There really is.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: There's a lot of money in this. It it's easy, again, it's easy to blame addiction. Like you can say, oh, I'm addicted. I don't have a problem. As I just said to you, if you have a compulsion or if you have an out-of-control sexual behavior and you're having to deal with it, this takes work, right? I'm not saying people who have overcome addictions don't require work, but there is always that safety net, that fallback of, well, I have a there's really something wrong. There's an addiction that I have. Neurologically, there is an addiction.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: You cannot have this with sex and with pleasure in the same way. Uh well, you can have it with pleasure that comes from substances that you put inside of your body, whether it is sugar or whether it is nicotine or whether it is alcohol. But these are sexual hormones that are naturally in the body. So for us to pathologize that and say this is an addiction, I think this is a terrible method or a terrible model to follow.

[17:26] What Happens When Someone Comes to Therapy

Dr. Bawa: So tell me, you see a lot of people, I'm assuming, who come to your practice talking about porn addiction. How does that discussion go? How does that how does that work?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So typically someone comes in the office, they say, I have a porn addiction. It's always a man. I've never had a female client. No woman has ever walked in my office and said I have a porn addiction.

Dr. Bawa: I was going to ask you about that.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Never. So usually a guy comes in now, there have been couples, and then the woman has said, My husband or my boyfriend has a porn addiction, but never has a woman come in by herself and said she's had a porn addiction. So when a guy comes in and says he has a porn addiction, I say, No, you're wrong. No, I don't, I don't, I don't do that. I typically would ask him why he feels he has a porn addiction. I want to know his cognitive thought process of what is what is the real issue? Because obviously he is blaming porn for something. Let's find out what's what's happening.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Typically, the conversation will go something along the lines of, I can't stop watching porn. I feel guilty every time I'm done. That's one, or I can't stop watching porn, it's interfering with my sex life. So now I know that either the real issue is guilt or there's a problem in his sex life. And then I so I will digress. Um, and after maybe the second or third session, I'll explain to him typically, you know, how I don't believe that it is an addiction, which this gives some of them a lot of relief, like you know, and I explain to them why. I don't just tell them there's no such thing as addiction, I explain that an addiction model does not work.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: And you know, in the DSM-5, it clearly states that there is not enough scientific evidence to support an addiction model for dealing with sexual issues. So why we continuously use this title and why we continuously blame this on an addiction, I think it's very damaging. And it's damaging to the client because, like I said, they come in with so much anxiety and guilt anyway.

[19:34] Sexual Shame and a Holistic Approach

Dr. Bawa: So I'm sure it's quite a relief to people when you say that they suddenly don't feel like freaks, for one.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Absolutely. Uh because you, you know, you know very well, people have so much shame around sex, right? Yes, they have so much shame, whether they don't they don't want to even share things with their partner because they're afraid their partner will think something's wrong with them. They'll think they're they're a freak or something, whatever the case may be. So I think that if we can destigmatize porn and sex in general, it is much more helpful in overcoming some of this.

Dr. Bawa: I agree. In fact, so much of the sexual wellness and intimate wellness that I do at my practice Bawa Medical in Boca Raton, Florida, so much of that depends on their backstory coming in. They have sexual dysfunction. I know I can help them, but I can't fully help them unless I know where it's coming from. Right. And shame is usually an integral part of the dynamic there. One way or another.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: You know, a lot of sex therapy today is focused on demedicalizing sexual issues. I think this is terrible. I think this is an overreach from the fact that for far too long with any type of sexual issues, it's always been let's give us a let's give it a pill, right? Let's give you Viagra, let's give you Cialis, let's that's how we're gonna deal with the issue without dealing with the root cause. I personally think, and we've talked about this before, I think the best method or the best approach to sexual health is one that involves that's that's very holistic. It involves a medical aspect of it, right?

Dr. Bawa: Yes.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: it involves a psychological aspect of it, and it involves a somatic aspect of it. And I believe when you can combine that, you can really help a client reach their fullness and in sexual health. And and that's why I think it's fantastic that you have these conversations with patients. You're not just writing them a prescription and sending them out the door. Um because there is you can give them all the shots in the world or you know, do all the procedures in the world. You know, it's a little off subject, but I cannot tell you the number of times when a guy who's complained about a size of his penis and he's like, I've done everything to increase the size of my penis, and he's still not comfortable with himself because there are psychological issues that follow along with that, right? It's just how it is. They really the holistic approach, I think, is beautiful.

[22:17] Combining Medical and Psychological Care

Dr. Bawa: No, I agree. In fact, I don't even prescribe Viagra or Cialis at my practice because I feel that they're band-aids and they're never addressing the actual problem in any shape or form, whether it's psychological or whether it's physical. Now, I always stress the need for good sex therapy in the right situation to my patients because I do believe in it. That's why I think you being on this podcast is so critical because this is a major issue. And then I try to fix the problem itself because you know you said the wetter the better, and I say without flow you don't grow.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: That's right.

Dr. Bawa: I help the flow. I help fix the problem. So I think it's a happy mix of both the psychological and the medical that can actually be fixed. I'm all about solutions, not about band-aids. And that's why I think you and I are such a great pairing. It's too bad we don't work together.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I know. We shouldn't we should start collaborating.

Dr. Bawa: We have to start collaborating. I think our patients could benefit so much from each other.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: 100%.

[23:22] When a Partner Says, “It’s Porn Addiction”

Dr. Bawa: So tell me about this scenario. I'm sure it happens to you all the time. You tell them that there's no such thing as true porn addiction, and the partner argues back and says, No, doctor, I disagree. My partner definitely has a porn addiction. What would you say? How does that conversation go?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I would I would handle that a lot of the same way that I handle with the let's let's call it male partner, okay? Let's say the male partner. So when a woman tells me, no, my partner definitely does have an issue, I would ask, I would start with the same question. Why do you think that? Right? And she's going to tell me things like, well, because he has no interest in me, he's always watching porn. Okay. So I would deal with, why do you say your partner has no interest in me? And I can promise you that it's not just that the partner has stopped having sex with her. She'll say things like, Well, he doesn't want to spend time together, or he doesn't text me as much as he used to. All of these issues. Do you see? I laugh only because when the woman starts to say these things out loud, and then I say, So how does how does him watching porn at night impact him texting you during the day? Then she really has to stop and think about this. And then we can explore whatever relationship dynamics are there that really need to be worked on.

[24:59] Rebuilding a Couple’s Sex Life

Dr. Bawa: Hmm. That's an interesting way of looking at it, and very true. So, how can couples whose sex life has been impacted by porn and masturbation overcome these issues?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Well, communication is always the key. Like, that's always number one. What I do tell partners, and I often tell the woman, listen, don't tell him he cannot masturbate. If you tell them he, it's like when you tell a kid don't stick an M&M up their nose. The first thing they're gonna do is stick it up their nose.

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely, yes.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Like because you put this restriction on there. Then you're really gonna, it then becomes this cycle. You're like, oh, see, it is an addiction. He couldn't stop. Okay. So what I would do first, I would switch to a sex toy when masturbating. Make sure you use a lot of lube. Okay. This is mainly if I'm dealing with problems with ejaculation or erection. So, because it's funny, guys who cannot ejaculate or have an erection during sex have no problem when they're masturbating. Like that's never the issue. So I would say use a sex toy, use lots of lube. Then the next discussion, and listen, I'm gonna caution here because I know a lot of partners who have said to their partner, and I know therapists who have recommended this.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Why don't we watch porn together? I do not do this as a clinician only because, as we've already talked about, some women really have self-esteem issues related to porn consumption. Okay. If your partner likes porn, that's perfectly fine. You can enjoy watching it together. But I would start with the masturbation using a sex toy, and then I would start with incorporating your partner into your masturbation routine. Okay. That doesn't mean you don't ever masturbate alone, but that means, you know, if you're using something like a TENGA Cup or a TENGA Flip to masturbate with, maybe your partner controls the toy, which gives you a completely new sensation than if you use the toy yourself.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: That would be that would be how I would deal with the erection and ejaculation issue. And then I would slowly move that to penis-vagina penetration. For issues of not having sex with the partner, I would do something like sensate focus therapy, which the idea of this is not to have an orgasm, it's not to even have penetrative sex. For the first couple sessions, they would do nothing but lay naked with each other and they would communicate as they are touching one another. So, like, say the female begins to touch the man and slowly his focus would be on her fingertips. Now, why am I doing this? So I know some therapists will say this is a little controversial because usually you wouldn't use sensate focus therapy for this type of issue or desire discrepancy. But I or I would say that what this does is allows the man to remember the pleasure his partner can give him.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So if he's laying, we'd start with him, he would lay there, she would slowly touch him. I would say to him that his assignment is to solely focus on her fingertips and what feels good and what doesn't feel good. And you communicate this while you're doing sensate focus therapy, right? And then he would do the same thing with her. Um, what typically happens is this reignites and reinvigorates this feeling of, oh yeah, I forgot. This does feel good. My partner can make me feel good, and it opens up this idea of conversation of yes, I like this, I don't like this. So then they're more comfortable saying, you know, maybe I would like to add something to our lovemaking, maybe new positions, maybe different outfits, maybe toys, whatever the case may be. They develop that conversation where they're able to discuss and work through it.

[29:15] Communication Can Improve the Relationship

Dr. Bawa: Like you said earlier, communication is critical. And sometimes this complaint of porn addiction can be used to actually improve the relationship.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So you mean the use of pornography then?

Dr. Bawa: No, no, no. My question, my comment really was that when, like you said, there are bigger issues at play if the person's unhappy about the partner consuming porn. Whether it's a boring sex position, whether it's just a relationship getting stale over time. So this issue, quote unquote, can actually lead to a conversation that improves the relationship.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So that's how I always view therapy with couples, okay? I always look at whatever the issue is, and I think this is good, like because now we can start over and we can have even a better sex life than previously thought or that they previously had. And that's one reason why I like doing this work so much is because when couples come in with these issues and then they leave, and I hear from them, and they're, or even in the middle of therapy, like you know, two, three months into therapy, to see how this person has changed. I always say that when our sex lives and everything are aligned, we have more self-esteem. Like, you know what I mean? Our self-esteem, we feel better about ourselves, we have better relationships with those that are around us as well, right? And we're really our best selves in those moments. And to see that transformation within an individual and a couple is the most rewarding part of this work.

[30:59] LGBTQ Couples, Porn and Polyamory

Dr. Bawa: No, you are definitely doing God's work, and so am I. Very underrated doctors, you and I. So do you think that LGBTQ couples complain less to you about porn addiction than heterosexual couples? Is that a crazy question?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Yeah, no, no, that's a that's a great question. And yeah, most most often this is not the case. I cannot think of a single now. I have had a gay couple complain that one of them had a sex addiction, and this is gonna be controversial, what I want to say. So I apologize in advance. The hate mail can be sent to me with. The hate mail can be sent to me through Dr. Bawa.

Dr. Bawa: It's okay.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: The sex addiction in this instance really came from the fact that they had an open polyamorous relationship. And call me old-fashioned, but I have never seen an instance where this has actually worked out successfully. And what the issue was is one of the partners was jealous that the other partner was attracting more people to have sex with him than he was.

Dr. Bawa: That is a controversial topic. In fact, I had a polyamorous gentleman on my podcast a few months ago, and we discussed this because I could not wrap my head around how this works practically. How does jealousy not become an issue?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So those in the this is a little off topic again, but those in the polyamorous community would say, oh, we have better communication skills. Well, that's not true at all. Like, like these issues of jealousy are still there, but they're multiplied because now you have more than one person involved, right? I have never professionally and personally, I have never seen people who can honestly say, you'll see, you'll hear people say it, but honestly say, I've never been hurt in this relationship. They may have been hurt and have gotten over it, but to say they've never been hurt doesn't happen.

Dr. Bawa: But I know that they're as a community more open sexually in some ways. So I figured that they probably complain less about porn. And I guess in that sense, I'm right.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: LGBTQ couples.

Dr. Bawa: Yes, yes, that's what I meant.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Yeah, absolutely. Um well, typically what I have found is that the porn usage is more common among the men, right? Like maybe, and for them, a lot of times the porn usage can be something that they do together. And I think that is the problem with the heterosexual couples. Again, I'm not advocating that heterosexual couples watch porn together. I'm not advocating. They can if they want to, that, but I'm not saying you need to do this. But because the gay couples do it together, they don't have that struggle of, oh, he's watching porn. I feel like I'm being cheated on.

[33:53] Video Porn and Pornhub Culture

Dr. Bawa: Yes. Now, here's probably a very naive question, but something I think about when it comes to my patients. And who better to ask than you? When people are talking about or complaining about porn addiction, it's usually video porn, right? Not images.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Well, I would assume that at some time it may have involved images, I'm sure. But yeah, today it's mostly video porn.

Dr. Bawa: Pornhub's really rocking.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Pornhub is really doing the business. I mean, you know, even Pornhub merchandise is becoming popular.

Dr. Bawa: Really? They have that? Oh, who knew?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Oh, T-shirts and everything. There are a lot of people wearing it because it is very, very popular. I asked them to send me some; they would not send me any.

Dr. Bawa: That is funny. So, where do you wear Pornhub t-shirts? To Walmart, to Target, to the neighborhood restaurant?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I mean, it has become popular among young people. Like, really, around age 17—well, probably younger—probably 16 to 23 or 24. It is very popular.

Dr. Bawa: Really?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: A lot of influencers wear it.

Dr. Bawa: Who knew? See all the things you teach me? You're good to have as a friend. Who knew? Dr. Sex Fairy didn't even know that Pornhub has t-shirts.

[35:08] Why Medical and Psychological Expertise Work Together

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: But see, that's why we work so well together, right? Like because there's so many parts of the and a lot of people don't ever get it. So they hear the title doctor, they assume everybody knows everything, right? Like, yeah, you know, I know very little about I don't know as much as I would like to know about the medical aspects of sexual health because I don't specialize in medicine, right? I specialize in psychology, and so that's why we work well, right? We can consult, we can collaborate, and people don't know we're friends, we talk outside of the show.

Dr. Bawa: Yes, we do, and we are getting ready to do a course together.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Yeah, oh, I'm very excited.

[35:48] Where to Find Dr. Caleb Jacobson

Dr. Bawa: I'm so excited about that. So, where can people find you?

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: So I'm on all the social media at Dr. Caleb Jacobson, but they can follow me, it'd be great. I'd love to have them follow me. But I have something for all of your guests, all of your listeners, I have something for them absolutely free.

Dr. Bawa: Oh, that's nice.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: Yeah, I mean, who doesn't like free stuff?

Dr. Bawa: Free stuff is good.

Dr. Caleb Jacobson: I have a free book for everyone listening called 10 tools to improve your sex life. And they can get it for free by visiting my website, SexTherapyPodcast.com. There'll be a little pop-up that comes up. They just fill that out and they'll automatically get this book, 10 tools that'll improve your sex life. And there are a lot of discounts for some products that they might enjoy that are included with that as well. So I visit SexTherapy Podcast.com. Get the free book.

[36:43] Closing Thoughts on Porn Addiction

Dr. Bawa: Thank you. I'm sure our listeners are delighted. So porn addiction. Agree, disagree, porn is here to stay. And I think that as long as you take the guilt and shame out of it, what can it hurt? I am not advocating porn. I'm just saying let's keep an open mind. Until next time.

[37:00] Recorded Outro

Dr. Bawa: I hope you enjoyed the Dr. Sex Fairy podcast today. I would love to continue this conversation with you. If you would like to get in touch with me, email me at askme@drsexfairy.com. Don't forget to follow this podcast and leave me a five-star review. And make sure you follow my blockbuster-hit TikTok account, Dr. Sex Fairy.