Ep. 142: Why Women Say No to Sex

[00:02] Preview: Feeling "Touched Out"

Ep. 142: Why Women Say No to Sex

Host: Dr. Kanwal Bawa | Guest: Rachel Smith | Runtime: 22:16 | Published: August 27, 2024

Dr. Bawa: It's tough also for women because as mothers, once you have a baby, you're breastfeeding, you know, your body's not your own. Right. It's hard to feel sexual sometimes.

Rachel Smith: Absolutely, absolutely. And I hear all the time for moms that they're just touched out. And so when their partners come to touch them, they're like, I don't want any more touch.

[00:34] Introduction: Why Women Say No to Sex

Dr. Bawa: Welcome to America's Top Sexuality Podcast, Dr. Sex Fairy. I am Dr. Kanwal Bawa, America's favorite sex doctor, and I am here to transform your life. Many of you asked why the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast was only an audio podcast. And so, by popular request, here we are as an audio and video podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Dr. Sex Fairy, as well as subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today we are embarking on an exploration of a topic that has intrigued and puzzled many. It has sparked countless discussions and arguments.

Dr. Bawa: Why women say no to sex is a subject that encompasses a multitude of emotions, desires, and complexities. Our guest is Rachel Smith, licensed marriage and family therapist with a certification in sex therapy. And this is going to be a great discussion. Hi, Rachel. Welcome back.

Rachel Smith: Thank you. I'm so glad to be back.

Dr. Bawa: This is an interesting topic.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes, it's an important one. A very important one.

Dr. Bawa: And I'll bet the men are listening as well this time.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes.

Dr. Bawa: So why do women say no to sex?

[01:57] Why Women Are Too Tired for Sex

Rachel Smith: Ah, there's so many reasons, but what we're finding in the most recent research is that women are reporting that they're just too tired. And so when we have all of these roles that we're fitting throughout the day, right? We may have our careers, we're taking care of our kids, we're taking care of the households, we have all of these roles and responsibilities. And then by the end of the day, we're just so exhausted that it's so hard to shift into this other part of ourselves.

Dr. Bawa: What about men? They are busy, they are dads, they are working, many of them are cooking and helping out around the house. Sure. Yet they seem ready for sex at the end of the day, but women aren't. Why is that?

[02:41] Hormones, Cycles, Perimenopause & Menopause

Rachel Smith: I want to believe it's the hormonal component, and that is a significant factor that, I mean, is emerging in the research. And we have to keep in mind that biologically, physiologically, there's different fluctuations and cycles that happen within a woman's body, right? Women don't only experience puberty, you know, in that shift of hormonal shifts or changes. We really experience hormonal shifts and changes throughout the entire month, throughout our menstrual cycle. So there might be certain times of the month where maybe we have a little bit more energy. And there might be other times of the month where we don't have as much. And so I think the hormones really, really play a significant role here.

Rachel Smith: It's a lot of up and down for us. A lot of up and down, you know, and then when we get to perimenopause, menopause, it's a whole other

Dr. Bawa: It's a shift show.

Rachel Smith: A shift show. I love that. Yes, exactly, exactly. Which makes it much more um complex in a lot of ways, right? I don't want to say complicated, but we just have to keep this in mind.

[03:51] Sexual Shame, Purity Culture & Pleasure

Dr. Bawa: There's this whole social component to shame around sex. And women are always raised to be, I shouldn't say always raised to be, but often raised to be wives and mothers. And sex in many cultures is considered dirty or something really only for procreation. Yes. What aspect of women not always wanting sex you think is related to that?

Rachel Smith: The sense of obligation, feeling as though sex is a duty, often shuts us down sexually because our sexual self, when we talk about desire, desire is in the wanting, right? And this idea is if we have to do something, then oftentimes we don't want to do something, right? If we feel like it's something that we're expected to do, then that creates a lot of pressure and the expectations often shut us down sexually.

Dr. Bawa: But I think my point was different. What I was trying to say is very often, because sex is considered dirty or pleasure, pleasure is something you feel guilty about experiencing, that shame associated with it. I wonder how often that plays into it as well.

Rachel Smith: Absolutely, absolutely.

Rachel Smith: The sexual shame is so salient in our culture overall, and especially for women. And when we're talking about different cultures and religious beliefs where women are supposed to be pure, right? And the purity culture that's emerged through different regions and different religions, it doesn't allow women access to our bodies in terms of, as you're saying, are we allowed to experience pleasure? Especially if sex is primarily for procreation and for our partners, for our partners' pleasure, then what about our pleasure, right? And so this shame of, oh, I'm becoming aroused. Is this okay? Is this, you know, something that's acceptable?

Rachel Smith: And that can be those thoughts, once women get in their head, it disconnects us from our bodies even more so.

[06:05] Sex Toys, Blood Flow & "Use It or Lose It"

Dr. Bawa: It's like sex toys. Yes. It's very embarrassing to women to own sex toys and to go buy them. I have a lot of patients who say to me, Dr. Bawa, why don't you carry vibrators in the office? I say, come on, I'm not a sex shop. But they say, I don't want to buy them off Amazon. I'd rather buy them from you.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: Yes, yes. They're that embarrassed.

Rachel Smith: Yes, absolutely. And that's so interesting because I actually just met with some owners of a toy shop in a toy store in Hallendale Beach. And when he the so it's a family-owned and operated business, and the son actually has his degree in engineering from UF, and he's decided to come back and work in the family business because he recognized the importance of educating people around toys and how they work. So he can, he is also on a mission to help to destigmatize, you know, the use of toys and how we can really use them to enhance our sexual pleasure.

Dr. Bawa: Oh, absolutely. It's a very important thing. I am now developing my own line of sex toys. And I have a penis pump coming because these are important things. And I always tell my patients that you've got to stop seeing a vibrator as just something for pleasure. I mean, that's a pretty good reason to have it. But I always tell them it's also a sexual or intimate health aid because that vibration is also bringing good blood flow to your vaginal area. Absolutely. And vaginal atrophy or tissue literally dying is a real thing over time, especially if you're not having sex. Yep. Yeah. Or intercourse, I should say. Because it's use it or lose it.

Rachel Smith: Absolutely.

[07:45] Self-Pleasure & Becoming More Open to Sex

Rachel Smith: And I don't believe, I don't think a lot of women know that.

Dr. Bawa: No, they don't.

Rachel Smith: You know, and even if you don't have a sexual partner for us to be able to connect with our bodies in that way, you know, self-pleasure, solo sex can be such a beautiful uh grounding exercise for us to feel connected to our bodies and help us to feel empowered in our bodies, right? If we don't know what we like, then how are we going to be able to communicate that to our partners?

Dr. Bawa: And I say that all the time.

Rachel Smith: Exactly. And solo sex and self-pleasure really helps us to be able to pinpoint those things.

Dr. Bawa: How can women become more open to sex and pleasure?

Rachel Smith: Yes. So that educational piece is so important, you know, and when we're able to really learn that pleasure is our birthright and we're able to work through the shame around it, then we can learn how to, you know, for women, oftentimes it's the buildup, right? It's not just, you know, a switch that turns on, right? We really have to allow our bodies to get into that moment. And so being more open means that we have to allow ourselves to transition from the day-to-day roles and responsibilities, maybe we go take a bath, or maybe we take time for meditation, or maybe we just take time to listen to music or read a book, right?

Rachel Smith: So that we can help ourselves to shift out of all of the caretaking that we are, you know, often expected to do in our everyday, because being a caretaker is the exact opposite of what our sexual self needs. So giving ourselves that time to transition really helps us to open up sexually.

[09:38] Meditation, Stress & Being Present

Dr. Bawa: And I talk to people sometimes and I say, listen, meditation doesn't have to be you sitting with your eyes closed in a certain pose.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: Meditation is a very subjective thing.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: Now, my idea of hell is sitting and you know, closing my eyes and doing nothing and trying to still my mind.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: Doesn't happen. Not going to happen.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: And I'm okay with that. For me, perhaps meditation is working out with classic rock blaring in my ears. It works.

Rachel Smith: Yes. It's okay. Yes.

Dr. Bawa: It's whatever works.

Rachel Smith: Exactly. Whatever can help you to get out of all of those ruminating, rapid thoughts in our mind and really just to be present and connect to our bodies. And that can also be going for a walk, you know, and just paying attention to nature and the things that are around us. That can be a beautiful meditation.

[10:29] Motherhood & Feeling "Touched Out"

Dr. Bawa: It's tough also for women because as mothers, once you have a baby, you're breastfeeding, you know, your body's not your own. Right. It's hard to feel sexual sometimes.

Rachel Smith: Absolutely, absolutely. And I hear all the time for moms that they're just touched out. And so when their partners come to touch them, they're like, I don't want any more touch. They're almost repulsed by it.

Dr. Bawa: Yes, absolutely. And it's not fair on the partner.

Rachel Smith: Yep, yep, yep. And when our uh going back to this idea of our nervous system, and when our nervous systems are dysregulated, we're not going to be receptive to touch. Any form of touch, when we are in that kind of fight or flight or survival mode, we push away from rather than lean into. And so that's why finding ways to rest and relax and um transition from those high stress moments are so, so important so that we can be able to receive and be receptive of that touch.

Dr. Bawa: And connecting as a couple on a non-sexual level.

Rachel Smith: Yes, exactly. Exactly. That sensual level.

[11:35] How to Say No Without Disconnecting

Dr. Bawa: Yes. And I do think I'm playing the devil's advocate here, but we need to be nicer to our partners when we're not feeling in the mood. Yes. Because I think too often it's aggressive. And that hurts their feelings.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes. And when we talk about saying no, I think that's part of the problem. That women especially were just, you know, that that advance and we're overwhelmed. And so we automatically just kind of reject it very quickly without allowing ourselves to have a conversation and it and providing an explanation behind the no. We can absolutely say no to sex if we're not in the mood. Men are also not always in the mood, and we have to allow space for that, right? But when we're just saying no, I don't want to, that creates a disconnect with our partners.

Rachel Smith: When we're able to explain, you know, I'm just, I'm so exhausted today, you know, I've had all of these things going on, or I'm really not feeling well, you know, would it be possible if maybe we just cuddled instead, or if maybe, you know, we just did it or had some like massages. And so that way we're allowing for some flexibility and some variability in that in those ways of connecting rather than thinking that it has to be one specific thing. And I think that our partners can also be more clear in terms of the type of intimacy that they're wanting or wanting to be open to.

Rachel Smith: Because I think when we're not communicating around the type of sex or the type of intimacy that we're wanting to experience, then we're thinking that it has to be that one specific thing. And if we don't want that one specific thing, then we say no to all of it, which isn't fair to either partner.

[13:17] Asking for Help & Sharing the Mental Load

Dr. Bawa: And I think if women are more honest with their partner about what it is that is overwhelming them, I dare say that the average partner will help them.

Rachel Smith: Absolutely.

Dr. Bawa: Whether it's okay, honey, I need you to help me just take that load of laundry the entire cycle, wash it, dry it, fold it, put it away.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes.

Dr. Bawa: They'll probably do it.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes.

Dr. Bawa: And if that helps you just breathe, then maybe you need to ask for help.

Rachel Smith: It's okay to ask for help.

Rachel Smith: It's okay to ask for help.

[13:45] When Women Don't Like the Sex They're Having

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely, absolutely. The other problem I think causes women to not want sex is that they don't like the sex they're having.

Rachel Smith: Exactly. That's exactly it.

Dr. Bawa: So much of porn, when you think about it. Now I'm not anti-porn, for porn, I'm neutral on the subject. But I feel that porn gives a very skewed idea of what sexuality and what sex is, what is normal. Right. So people think that unless they're getting pounded, they're not going to have pleasure. And when they're getting pounded and it's hurting or not doing anything, they feel like they have to put on this act to please their partner, especially their male partner. And I honestly don't think that men want to be lied to. Who is that helping? You're not into it, you're not enjoying it.

Dr. Bawa: When you don't enjoy it, you're not going to want sex as much, he's not going to get as much sex. Exactly. Why be dishonest about it?

Rachel Smith: Exactly. Well, and that's also the problem with faking orgasms.

[14:40] Faking Orgasms & the Orgasm Gap

Rachel Smith: Yes. When women are faking orgasms, we're essentially lying to our partners, right? And we're not allowing for that open communication of what it is that we're actually wanting, liking, or needing in order to feel pleasure. And so uh there's an incredible book that I believe every woman and every person who is in partnership or is a romantic sexual partnership with a woman should read. It's called Come As You Are by Dr. Emily Nagoski. She's an incredible sex educator. And one of her key themes or messages is pleasure is the measure of sexual satisfaction.

Rachel Smith: And so when we're focusing on pleasure and all the ways that we can experience pleasure, then that really helps to open us up sexually. And so I also, you know, when we talk about uh orgasm, I think a lot of people also don't know that only about 20% of women are able to achieve orgasm via intercourse alone, which means the majority of us need very direct and specific clitoral stimulation. And so when we're recognizing that that pounding isn't speaking to our pleasure centers, then we have to be able to communicate to our partners what it is that we need.

[16:00] Improving Orgasmic Function & Preservation

Dr. Bawa: And now there are ways to become more orgasmic that didn't exist before. For instance, I do the BawaShot® on my patients. So I take blood from their arm, spin it down into PRP, platelet-rich plasma. Everybody's heard about it. You know, the vampire facial and everything, except you can inject it into the clitoris. Okay. And I have done so many at this point and done them so well. I have a painless technique. So my patients come in and they're quite scared. They're very nervous. The thought of a needle in their clitoris, I mean, God help them.

Dr. Bawa: So what what I do is I literally give that clitoris growth factor to stimulate stem cells and increase clitoral size. So don't worry, these women are not turning into golf balls down there. But what happens is that the clitoris shrinks over time, just like your skin on the face is sagging, you know, your jowls are forming. How is that any different? It's the same thing. So women who were orgasmic and now are not as orgasmic, you know, I do hormone balancing. So I make sure their hormones are where they need to be.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: That they have enough testosterone. Because as we've discussed, everybody needs to have that masculine and feminine, and women also have testosterone. And sometimes it's too low.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: So something easily replaced can help.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: Actual clitoral and vaginal rejuvenation can help. And nowadays, I'm trying to educate people into the concept of preservation.

Rachel Smith: Okay.

Dr. Bawa: Because often people say, Oh, I don't have that problem. Okay, but you know it's coming.

Rachel Smith: Yes.

Dr. Bawa: So why not make things better so that it doesn't happen?

Rachel Smith: Absolutely.

Dr. Bawa: Because you know it's a free-for-all after the problem starts. So why not just preempt it?

Rachel Smith: Absolutely.

Dr. Bawa: And do something rejuvenative when you don't necessarily need it.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: And the other issue I see a lot is, oh, I'm not that bad yet. How much worse do you need to be before you admit that you need help?

Rachel Smith: Right, right.

[17:56] Women Deserve Pleasure

Rachel Smith: Well, maybe that comes back to, you know, not being deserving of pleasure or worthy of pleasure, or pleasure isn't as important for us as women, right? And so, oh, you know, we can handle cramps and childbirth and we can handle that pain, right? And so if I'm not experiencing pleasure to the fullest, it's okay. I can manage it. But is that really the type of, you know, sex that we want to have or the intimate experiences that we're wanting to have?

[18:26] Vaginal Dryness & Getting Help

Dr. Bawa: Yeah, it's like vaginal dryness. It comes with age.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: And you don't have to be, you know, 70, 80 to be having that.

Rachel Smith: Right.

Dr. Bawa: Women in their 30s can suffer from vaginal dryness. Some women in their 20s need lube every time. And that's okay. And I think that if women go get the help they need, not everybody can come to me. I understand. Many of them do, many of them fly to me, but go speak to your OB-GYN. Not every OB-GYN will even bother to ask you if sex hurts. That's the other sad part about the situation.

Rachel Smith: Yes, yes.

Rachel Smith: And what's incredible as well is that the women that I work with, a very small percentage of them even know that a pelvic floor physical therapist is a service that's available to them, especially if there is painful intercourse. And it's that lack of education and the lack of um normalcy around having these real conversations about our real experiences sexually. We just think that we have to kind of bite the bullet and just, you know, take what's being given rather than taking what we want, need, deserve sexually.

[19:38] A Space for Honest Sexual Conversations

Dr. Bawa: Absolutely. And that's why we're having this conversation today and why the Dr. Sex Fairy podcast exists for women, for men, for people who are non-binary, however they identify. Absolutely. Absolutely. Everybody needs a space where they can be honest about their needs, about their desires, and all of that good stuff. Yes, yes.

[19:59] Communication Is Lubrication

Rachel Smith: So what's important to consider is that in a lot of ways, communication is lubrication. Because when we're able to talk about our desires, our wants and needs with our partner, then one, it helps to create a normalcy. And when we're able to create more consistent conversations around sex and sexuality and our sexual experiences with our partners, then we feel more comfortable expressing our wants and needs. And when we're able to talk about our wants and needs, then we're going to receive what it is that is actually pleasurable for us, which helps us want more sex. There you go.

Dr. Bawa: So, Rachel, how can people find you?

Rachel Smith: My social media platforms, it's Infinite Intimacy Therapy, and my website is infiniteintimacytherapy.com.

[20:52] Recorded Outro

Dr. Bawa: Well, thank you for this wonderful conversation, and I look forward to having you back. Thank you, my listeners and viewers, for joining us on this insightful journey into the complexities of women's decisions around intimacy. Our conversation with Rachel Smith has shed light upon the myriad factors that influence these choices. Remember, understanding and respecting one another's desires and boundaries is key to nurturing healthy relationships. Thank you as always for spending time with me on yet another wonderful episode of the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. If you are watching this on YouTube, don't forget to leave questions and comments. I will answer them personally.

Dr. Bawa: Make sure that you like this video and subscribe to my channel, Dr. Sex Fairy, so that you never miss a video. If you are listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or elsewhere, do subscribe to the Dr. Sex Fairy Podcast. We have great content and guests to come. Check out my super hit TikTok, Dr. Sex Fairy, and my Instagram, therealdrsexfairy. Until next time.